WampaRat 1,105 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Two sweeping romanticized war films scored by the Maestro. Different eras, and different continents. Yet both have moments of heroics, tragedy, love, terror, soaring pastoral moments. In short, all the ingredients for a great Williams score. The Patriot may be the more upfront action/adventure score. War horse is perhaps more gentler. Sort of an E.T. Set in WWI. But “No Man’s Land” could certainly compete with “Tavington’s Trap” in getting your pulse racing. What’s your favorite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Both good scores if not great. I voted for The Patriot because it's more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I think this race will be won by a horse. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 War Horse AINEC mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 War Horse is top 20 material for me. It’s his best score from the 2010’s. BrotherSound and mstrox 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 I picked the Patriot. Nostalgia pushes that one over the line for me. Although I realize now how similar the main theme is to “Dry Your Tears Afrika” and the Civil Rights portion of Williams American Journey symphony. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted February 23, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, Jay said: War Horse AINEC Hmm, I'd be curious if a complete release of The Patriot might change your mind. Other than the Star Wars and Indys, The Patriot has in my opinion the largest amount of compelling unreleased music, including a number of cues that were only partially used or dropped. I also picked War Horse, but it was a photo finish. Jurassic Shark, Will, D_nev and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,690 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I really like a handful of tracks from The Patriot, but in terms of sheer craft and melodic content War Horse wins by a country mile. Strangely I generally enjoy listening to my selections from The Patriot more though. It's a bit more fun. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted February 23, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: Hmm, I'd be curious if a complete release of The Patriot might change your mind. Indeed, I'm really hoping a complete release can happen one day, because I'd LOVE to re-evaluate the score through that! As it stands right now I like the OST album just fine, but don't LOVE it. War Horse I absolutely love, and think it's one of the best scores he ever wrote Once, mstrox, D_nev and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Richard Penna said: I really like a handful of tracks from The Patriot, but in terms of sheer craft and melodic content War Horse wins by a country mile. Strangely I generally enjoy listening to my selections from The Patriot more though. It's a bit more fun. So you actually like The Patriot more, but think War Horse is somehow objectively better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Kinda tricky. They're both good scores, but not top shelf Williams for me. THE PATRIOT has that 'autopilot' feel with the AMISTAD-like theme, but Williams autopilot can be excellent. WAR HORSE has some lovely pastoral bits (I still consider it his best post-2005 score), but also less involving bits in his recent, more motivic style. If someone put a gun to my head, I suppose I would pick WAR HORSE. mstrox and WampaRat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,690 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 17 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: So you actually like The Patriot more, but think War Horse is somehow objectively better? There's better crafting and there's more fun and involving to listen to - different things. It's why I don't go along with unconditional praise for Williams despite undoubtedly finer craft than many. It doesn't always mean that the end result is more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Agreed. I don't find The Patriot to be the best crafted (the time constraints shine through), but I find it the most enjoyable. Which to me makes it the best score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,690 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I also find more of War Horse enjoyable than Patriot - just not as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 When an expansion is eventually released, I look forward to this “Gabriel’s Letter cue” There’s a little melody at :58 seconds into the clip (and right at the end but it gets cut off) that only appears once on the ost. Kind of a “family hardship” motif. But it appears in the film a handful of times. Also the beautiful “North Star” motif plays more throughout the film (cant find that specific clip when Martin’s daughters are looking at the sky at night pointing to the North Star) I believe it too only pops up once on the ost. Edmilson and BrotherSound 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,457 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I voted for The Patriot because it's one of my favorite Williams scores, but I can understand most people preferring WH. War Horse is a great score, had a great OST and the sessions leaked a few years ago, so people have a more thorough idea of the whole thing. The Patriot, on the other hand, has some wonderful unreleased cues that might change some unfavorable opinions when the expansion is finally released. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 War Horse is a nice, good score. The Patriot is freaking awesome, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,129 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I literally can't decide. But I just want to say the Keith Lockhart version of the Patriot is probably one of my favorite concert arrangements ever. It's too bad that arrangement couldn't have been put together for the reprise at the end of the OST. As Thor mentioned, it's not complex, but that's not necessarily bad. In fact, it has the ability to rouse a lump to my throat. But War Horse is not to be underestimated. I think it's just slightly less in your face than the Patriot. Slightly. But that friendship theme (used in the absolutely magnificent War Horse Trailer) is just achingly beautiful. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pete 907 Posted February 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 24, 2022 I'm siding with War Horse - I just love the suite, end credits, and those last cues before the credits. As others have mentioned, it just sounds so well crafted. Having said that, I really love The Patriot Theme and especially the violin solos by Mark O'Connor that open it. Interesting guy too. I had a lot of interactions with him about a mutual interest not related to music or politics. And my fingers are certainly crossed for Patriot expanded release. blondheim, mstrox and TheUlyssesian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_nev 89 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Man, I really hope there is a Patriot expansion coming. I would LOVE to hear all that glorious unreleased music. BrotherSound and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,457 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 One interesting thing about both movies: John Williams' music single handedly makes these films better than they otherwise would've been with a "lesser" composer. Emmerich has a lot to thank to Williams for turning The Patriot into an emotional experience for the viewer. Of course, he should've thanked him by hiring Williams to score all his subsequent movies instead of Thomas Wanker. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 36 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Of course, he should've thanked him by hiring Williams to score all his subsequent movies instead of Thomas Wanker. Nah, would've been a waste of Williams' time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 23 hours ago, Jay said: War Horse AINEC mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,370 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 The Patriot was one of those scores that I skipped at the time after sneaking a little bit into it. I more or less just know the suite. Probably it is still better than anything we could expect to come out nowadays from other film composers. So, I would definitely go for an expansion. But War Horse caught me immediately. Clear winner for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 It should be no surprise which one I voted for. Happy to see I'm in a respectable minority. WampaRat and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Patriot is one of the rare instances of me watching the movie and having no knowledge beforehand that JW wrote the music. Once the movie got going, it was obvious I was listening to a JW soundtrack and that was a really nice surprise. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marc 768 Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 I tried to choose but in the end just couldn't ^^ Just love both equally !Yorktown And the Return Home & Remembering Emilie and Finale are two of my favorite JW cues Disco Stu, Will, BrotherSound and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I think PATRIOT is due for a fresh remaster.... ....??and an expansion too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 The main theme from The Patriot is the most stirring thing in either of the two scores. However overall War Horse is better - though, it is also a bit disjoint o album (mainly due to the film). But in the film proper, it shines. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,658 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 They are both good, though War Horse touches upon (but does not dwell long) greatness. A little too indebted to RVW for my tastes. The Patriot's main theme is just a bit too on the nose for me. Its good and rousing, but it is missing something that keeps it from being a true classic for me. I don't know music well enough to articulate way, but it seems like a melody of a just mostly quarter notes in standard time, whereas his other big pieces do not. But, again, I don't know music well enough--perhaps it is no different from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Nothing beats this theme: With all its jazzy goodness mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I love WH but.... the BEST theme is hardly used! You know, the one in.the trailer Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steve 593 Posted February 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 26, 2022 I think this is one of the most emotional scenes in film history with maybe JW's most moving theme performed so beautifully on the piano. When I first watched the movie (didn't hear the socre before) and that music appeared I got goosebumps. Amazing moment I will never forget. BrotherSound, Muad'Dib, mstrox and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I voted for The Patriot just because of the main piece from the score which Ive always really loved. But maybe the rest of the score should go to War Horse. I don't know. I like them both but neither are top tier for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pete 907 Posted February 27, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2022 6 hours ago, Steve said: I think this is one of the most emotional scenes in film history with maybe JW's most moving theme performed so beautifully on the piano. I totally forgot I made this years ago. I think I was on something or several somethings. Hope it doesn't ruin the music for you... mstrox, Smeltington and BrotherSound 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 On 26/02/2022 at 9:46 AM, Tom said: The Patriot's main theme is just a bit too on the nose for me. Its good and rousing, but it is missing something that keeps it from being a true classic for me. I don't know music well enough to articulate way, but it seems like a melody of a just mostly quarter notes in standard time, whereas his other big pieces do not. But, again, I don't know music well enough--perhaps it is no different from others. I know what you mean: the main theme (or whatever you want to call the first theme you hear in 'The Patriot' / 'The Patriot Reprise') is a bit plain by JW standards. But there are quite a few excellent themes, some one-offs and some recurring. I just adore this brass chorale later in the End Credits, which was unfortunately cut from the published concert arrangement: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxC_o8dHX4JYvYM1jYYVVCJiKNYqy-HO4S And there's a lovely, twice-occurring theme for Benjamin's daughter Susan: Will and Tom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2022 Plain is a good word for that main theme, but in a positive sense. "Unembellished, without addition or decoration." Homespun is another good word. It expertly evokes this sort of idyllic domestic rural feeling, with a feeling of simple folk music and "shape note" style sacred music of early American history. It's nice and easy to sing. Needless to say, I eat it up. Not Mr. Big, blondheim, BrotherSound and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,284 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 59 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Plain is a good word for that main theme, but in a positive sense. "Unembellished, without addition or decoration." Homespun is another good word. It expertly evokes this sort of idyllic domestic rural feeling, with a feeling of simple folk music and "shape note" style sacred music of early American history. It's nice and easy to sing. Needless to say, I eat it up. I always really liked the folksy violin theme that opens the main theme concert arrangement but the brassy theme is kinda as close to JW on autopilot as you can get (and let’s face it his autopilot mode better than most composers doing their best work). I think on the nose describes the brassy theme well. The violin theme feels a lot more, I dunno, authentic? Having said all that, I voted for War Horse. artguy360 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 The Patriot kicks War Horse's hairy ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,419 Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 I associate both scores with Christmas time. (War Horse came out on Christmas and I received The Patriot on DVD when I was younger for Christmas) A few years ago I would have said War Horse by a long shot. Not anymore. It's rather close for me personally as I've grown to love The Patriot. But it's still War Horse for me. An absolutely perfect score. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 Just popped in here to like everyone’s WAR HORSE posts - although it appears you’ve all lost your style guides over the last eleven years. Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 War Horse is my fifth favourite score Patriot isn't. War Horse wins mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Comparing these two films is like comparing CITIZEN KANE to SUPERMAN IV WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 8 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Comparing these two films is like comparing CITIZEN KANE to SUPERMAN IV Nah, they're pretty even. Both are good films, but both also have issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 PATRIOT is crap. You idolize Emmerich and can't be objective😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 It's an accurate depiction of the US civil war. JoeinAR and bruce marshall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said: It's an accurate depiction of the US civil war. Hmmmm... I thought it was about THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Silly me, I was thinking about Gone With the Wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: PATRIOT is crap. You idolize Emmerich and can't be objective😉 I don't know about that. I think ANONYMOUS, WHITE HOUSE DOWN and STONEWALL are rather bad films, for example. But yes, I am a hardcore fan of Emmerich, and I think THE PATRIOT is one of his finest. The sheer intensity of it all (both the mise-en-scene and the powerful performance by Gibson, in particular). The fine Williams score is icing on the cake. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mulder 154 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 The music in War Horse is really bad. I prefer Patriot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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