Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

2 hours ago, Bespin said:

 

 

[BB-8 3,479]

Dunno if this German interview with ASM has already been posted...

 

Anne-Sophie Mutter: Zarte Klänge für "Indiana Jones und das Rad des Schicksals" | News und Kritik | BR-KLASSIK | Bayerischer Rundfunk

 

[Marc 768]

I recently stumbled on this and found it delightful !

Title says "Raiders March" but it's much more than that 😉

 

https://youtu.be/3dJzkiqnHzM

[BB-8 3,479]

 I now declare this bazaar open...

John Williams – Indiana Jones And The Dial Of Destiny (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) (2023, CD) - Discogs

[Bespin 8,483]

45 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

 I now declare this bazaar open...

John Williams – Indiana Jones And The Dial Of Destiny (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) (2023, CD) - Discogs

 

 

[GlastoEls 563]

It’ll be a damn fool last crusade to find this one. 

[BB-8 3,479]

YouTube, Spotify, Qobuz, MP3, FLAC,...vinyl

 

CD

 

[GlastoEls 563]

^ Made me smile!

[BTR1701 59]

On 26/07/2023 at 9:38 AM, Tydirium said:

 

But you don’t have to stream it. You can buy an album on Qobuz or 7digital like many users here do, and save the files to your computer or an external hard drive so you never have to worry if the site ever changes or removes it.

 

I do understand the desire to have a physical product, though, such as when it comes to liner notes or just having something to put on the shelf alongside other CDs you already own. But if the streaming thing is your main concern, I just wanted to make sure you’re aware that in this day and age, with DRM-free music purchases available, you don’t really need to worry about losing access to your music. Once you download it, it’s not like they can take it from you.

 

"Once you download it, it’s not like they can take it from you."

 

Tell that to people who have had downloaded e-books deleted off their Kindles by Amazon for various reasons.

[Holko 9,529]

2 minutes ago, BTR1701 said:

Tell that to people who have had downloaded e-books deleted off their Kindles by Amazon for various reasons.

Nobody, no program is ever going to delete the FLACs from your hard drive. Proper standalone file downloads are the way to go, not app-internal downloads.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

4 minutes ago, BTR1701 said:

"Once you download it, it’s not like they can take it from you."

 

Tell that to people who have had downloaded e-books deleted off their Kindles by Amazon for various reasons.

 

Downloaded, DRM-free, to your own storage. Anything else is just buffered streaming.

[BTR1701 59]

On 31/07/2023 at 8:37 AM, JWisgreatestlivingcomposer said:

 

Wow, Wikipedia blatantly lies! It wouldn't be the first time...

 

Thank you for sharing that list of players!

 

I never did understand why some John Williams' scores were performed by the London Symphony Orchestra, while others just get these freelance Hollywood orchestras? It seems that the first six Star Wars scores (or maybe even the most recent three as well?) were all performed by the LSO, while the ONLY Indiana Jones score to get the LSO is Raiders. The remaining ones were all performed by Hollywood orchestras.

Is this correct?

And if it is, does anyone know why?

 

 

SW: A NEW HOPE was recorded by the LSO because the film was so far behind schedule that by the time Lucas delivered a locked print to Williams, there wasn't enough time to record it with a U.S. orchestra and meet the release date due to union restrictions. So they packed up and went to London. After that, it became somewhat of a tradition/preference for Williams.

[Tydirium 1,167]

57 minutes ago, BTR1701 said:

 

"Once you download it, it’s not like they can take it from you."

 

Tell that to people who have had downloaded e-books deleted off their Kindles by Amazon for various reasons.

 

Apples and oranges. Again, I’m specifically talking about DRM-free music, that is downloaded onto your actual hard drive on your computer. I’m not sure why you left out that highly-relevant part from the quote...

 

There is a big difference between DRM-free music, and a DRM e-book that is only being downloaded onto a Kindle. I would absolutely expect Amazon to be able to delete books off my Kindle. But it is not possible for Qobuz to delete things off my computer, especially not off my external hard drive that they have no access to.

[JWisgreatestlivingcomposer 43]

1 hour ago, BTR1701 said:

 

SW: A NEW HOPE was recorded by the LSO because the film was so far behind schedule that by the time Lucas delivered a locked print to Williams, there wasn't enough time to record it with a U.S. orchestra and meet the release date due to union restrictions. So they packed up and went to London. After that, it became somewhat of a tradition/preference for Williams.

Fascinating!

 

I just wish they had used the LSO for all the Indiana Jones scores. Last Crusade, in particular, is a really strong score, and yet it is somewhat let down by an underwhelming orchestral performance.

[Jay 37,369]

I think with Last Crusade, the orchestra performed it just fine, the issue is with the manner in which Dan Wallin recorded it (he put walls up between sections of the orchestra), so the orchestra ends up sounding smaller than it actually was

[JWisgreatestlivingcomposer 43]

44 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think with Last Crusade, the orchestra performed it just fine, the issue is with the manner in which Dan Wallin recorded it (he put walls up between sections of the orchestra), so the orchestra ends up sounding smaller than it actually was

Interesting!

Yes, the recording just sounds underwhelming even compared to the non-LSO performance of Temple of Doom. I think your explanation accounts for this difference.

[Jay 37,369]

Many of the musicians who performed on Temple of Doom would be the same ones who performed on Last Crusade.  It might have been the same soundstage too, I forget.  But different recording engineers.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

He should be called Dan Wall-In.

 

 

[Jay 37,369]

[BTR1701 59]

5 hours ago, JWisgreatestlivingcomposer said:

Fascinating!

 

I just wish they had used the LSO for all the Indiana Jones scores. Last Crusade, in particular, is a really strong score, and yet it is somewhat let down by an underwhelming orchestral performance.

 

What always grates for me on the LAST CRUSADE score is the long sustained high C# (concert B) in the trumpets at 3:59 in 'Belly of the Steel Beast'. They are *very* out of tune with one another on that note. Someone's way flat, and it just kills it for me. It's noticeable enough even for non-musicians that I have no idea why they didn't do another take on the cue.

 

On the other hand, the LSO recordings have their flubs and faults, too. For example, the horns in the cue "Ben's Death / TIE Fighter Attack" on the NEW HOPE recording aren't exactly having their best day with those triplet runs at 3:11.

[crumbs 14,317]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

I think with Last Crusade, the orchestra performed it just fine, the issue is with the manner in which Dan Wallin recorded it (he put walls up between sections of the orchestra), so the orchestra ends up sounding smaller than it actually was

 

Do you think Mike could salvage that recording with a brand new mix (using the multi-track masters) or is the small sound likely "baked" into the recording?

[Jay 37,369]

That's the million dollar question and I don't think any of us know the answer!

 

I was actually thinking about that very question earlier, and my GUESS is that going back to the multi-track could probably yield a better mix than the mix we got in 1989 BUT, it probably won't end up sounding like Temple of Doom or anything

[crumbs 14,317]

Not to mention the last word is the multi-track masters were missing anyway

[rough cut 1,714]

I saw this in the shop today. Eight year old me would have loved a thing like this.

 

I remember I had a pirate ship and a knights castle (the two big Lego sets my parents bought me). Of course, that was a time before Lego did any branded sets - back then all Lego sets were Lego originals.

 

But still, seeing this made me think of my childhood. 

 

 

[BB-8 3,479]

1 hour ago, rough cut said:

I saw this in the shop today. Eight year old me would have loved a thing like this.

 

I remember I had a pirate ship and a knights caste (the two big Lego sets my parents bought me). Of course, that was a time before Lego did any branded sets - back then all Lego sets were Lego originals.

 

But still, seeing this made me think of my childhood. 

 

 

 

I had (and still have) a cardboard Death Star with trash compactor.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

4 hours ago, rough cut said:

I saw this in the shop today. Eight year old me would have loved a thing like this.

 

I remember I had a pirate ship and a knights caste (the two big Lego sets my parents bought me). Of course, that was a time before Lego did any branded sets - back then all Lego sets were Lego originals.

 

But still, seeing this made me think of my childhood. 

 

There's a thread for this.

 

Eight-year-old me probably wouldn't have wanted this because I wasn't yet aware of Indiana Jones at the time. Fourty-three-year-old me definitely wants it. I'm just waiting for a good deal (i.e. at least 25% off).

[Edmilson 7,466]

11 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

Do you think Mike could salvage that recording with a brand new mix (using the multi-track masters) or is the small sound likely "baked" into the recording?

Ask again in 2070, and maybe, just maybe, we'll have an answer 

[Holko 9,529]

28 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Eight-year-old me probably wouldn't have wanted this because I wasn't yet aware of Indiana Jones at the time.

Ten-year-old me barely knew what Indiana Jones was and I thought the predecessor of this set would be one of the coolest things to have.

[rough cut 1,714]

Yeah, besides being nostalgic for Lego - that’s kind of what I was getting at. But regardless of being Indiana Jones or not, I think kid-me would have loved this: a jungle, indians, moving traps, spiders & skeletons and a gold treasure… what’s not to love? 

[Bespin 8,483]

30 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Yeah, besides being nostalgic for Lego - that’s kind of what I was getting at. But regardless of being Indiana Jones or not, I think kid-me would have loved this: a jungle, indians, moving traps, spiders & skeletons and a gold treasure… what’s not to love? 

 

Lego just announced a new set to commemorate the "Out of Print" CD of Indy 5.

 

That's exciting!

[Bayesian 1,363]

On 27/07/2023 at 5:07 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Yes, that's exactly what seems to be happening to me. The shipping fee was paid with the original order, of course. So was a "tax", that seems to amount to pretty much 20% of the total amount of CD prices and shipping costs - i.e. very much looks like it's suppose to be the EU's VAT.

 

Yet it apparently wasn't declared as already taxed, hence customs again charged 20% VAT for the amount declared on the first package (and will probably do so again for the amount on the other package).

 

I.e. it looks very much like I've been charged the EU taxes by Disney, who then failed to declare the package as such, so I had to pay them again to the customs office. And while it doesn't matter for the VAT amount whether the order is shipped in one package or ten packages (20% of the total sum will be the same either way), each individual package means extra handling fees for me.

 

I recently mailed a beloved forum member here a CD via USPS without the jewel case and it got to him safely without the customs fee being paid. If you place the disc in a bubble mailer along with the inlay card and booklet, it gets treated as a letter by the post office (which means $4.10 to ship to Europe without tracking, ~$20 with tracking).

 

I will note that the postal clerk was initially iffy about whether it really was just a letter inside--obviously, a CD is stiffer than a letter would be. I told him it was a piece of cardstock and I had it in a bubble mailer to protect it and he went with it.

 

Stories like Marian's are very frustrating to read because there's next to no recourse to make things right and the amount of money lost adds up quick. I'd certainly be frustrated if it were me in his position. Sometimes a bit of harmless sleight of hand helps to even the playing field. PM me if you're in Europe/AUS/NZ and want to give this a try.

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

27 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

Stories like Marian's are very frustrating to read because there's next to no recourse to make things right and the amount of money lost adds up quick. I'd certainly be frustrated if it were me in his position. Sometimes a bit of harmless sleight of hand helps to even the playing field. PM me if you're in Europe/AUS/NZ and want to give this a try.

 

Thanks for the offer, but it's not the taxes themselves I object to. It's presumably paying them twice (and also paying the handling fee twice because the order was split into two packages) that annoys me.

 

Repackaging them as private letters is fine when it works, but there's the extra risk of damage or loss, increase in shipping time (it took over a week as it is), and then it depends on whether the customs believe that it's indeed a gift - otherwise, they might tax it again, and since there's no receipt included, that would take another couple of weeks and then they'd estimate the shipping cost (probably too high) and tax that as well.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

That just made me remember that my aunt sent me some baby clothes for my newborn baby and the customs office asked me a detailed manifest of what was inside. In the packet already had in the label sticker “baby clothes woth 200$. It was not enoguh. I spent like two weeks emailing with them. My aunt didnt remember how many items and their exact prices. In the end they accepted the 3rd or 4th detailed list i invented for them.
 

i had to pay about 130€ in customs. Most of it was their package management fees. I was not pleased at all.

 

it seems you can declare directly the package to the tax webpage, and only pay vat, but i had never done it before. And i think the package arrived so quickly maybe i wouldnt have had time…

[BTR1701 59]

22 hours ago, crumbs said:

Not to mention the last word is the multi-track masters were missing anyway

 

I read about stuff like this a lot and I just can't imagine how it happens so frequently. Both with sheet music and recordings. How do things like that just get "lost"? Why don't these studios have clear cut archival procedures and employees whose sole job it is to make sure everything's accounted for and stored properly?

[crumbs 14,317]

52 minutes ago, BTR1701 said:

Why don't these studios have clear cut archival procedures and employees whose sole job it is to make sure everything's accounted for and stored properly?

 

Apathy and dollars.

 

These big studios simply don't value the historical importance of those recordings like we do.

[BB-8 3,479]

So the LP release has now been pushed back to September 1315, holding back the combined CD orders.

 

No email with information and/or apology from Disney Music Emporium...I would take all this to mean that the store is disorganized, uncommitted and uncaring.

[Edit] I received an email from DME today - see other thread.

 

It looks like I'll be getting LLL's reissued Lost World before DoD.

[JWisgreatestlivingcomposer 43]

Does anyone know why the "chase music" that Williams wrote that starts with the scene in Indy's storage room, going all the way through the horse chase in the subway, is completely omitted from the album? It's superb action orchestral music--Williams at his best! You can actually hear about a minute of the music here:

 

[Jay 37,369]

Just now, JWisgreatestlivingcomposer said:

Does anyone know why the "chase music" that Williams wrote that starts with the scene in Indy's storage room, going all the way through the horse chase in the subway, is completely omitted from the album?

[BB-8 3,479]

9 minutes ago, JWisgreatestlivingcomposer said:

Does anyone know why the "chase music" that Williams wrote that starts with the scene in Indy's storage room, going all the way through the horse chase in the subway, is completely omitted from the album? It's superb action orchestral music--Williams at his best! You can actually hear about a minute of the music here:

 

 

Perhaps because it's stylistically too close to "Ludlow's Motif"?

[JWisgreatestlivingcomposer 43]

5 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

 

Perhaps because it's stylistically too close to "Ludlow's Motif"?

That may be true, but it doesn't diminish the greatness of the music. Very impactful. It definitely should have been on the album. Williams often quotes himself.

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

I'm not sure I understand how this reply answers my question?

[Jay 37,369]

Well, there was over 2 hours of music recorded for this film, and the OST album is 67 minutes long (62 minutes of score + the ASM track).

 

So, naturally, about an hour of recorded music is not included on the OST album, this chase music among those unreleased minutes.

 

So really you're asking why John Williams selected different highlights, than what you personally consider to be the highlight of the score.  That is an unanswerable question, that we can only speculate about.

 

And also, many people on this forum have been fans for years or decades, so have experienced this exact situation over and over and over again:  Watching a new film scored by Williams, hearing cool music in it, and then not finding that music on the official soundtrack album.

 

This is exactly why the special label expansion market exists.

[JWisgreatestlivingcomposer 43]

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

Well, there was over 2 hours of music recorded for this film, and the OST album is 67 minutes long (62 minutes of score + the ASM track).

 

So, naturally, about an hour of recorded music is not included on the OST album, this chase music among those unreleased minutes.

 

So really you're asking why John Williams selected different highlights, than what you personally consider to be the highlight of the score.  That is an unanswerable question, that we can only speculate about.

 

And also, many people on this forum have been fans for years or decades, so have experienced this exact situation over and over and over again:  Watching a new film scored by Williams, hearing cool music in it, and then not finding that music on the official soundtrack album.

 

This is exactly why the special label expansion market exists.

Thank you, that clarifies the issue!

 

I too have been a JW fan for decades, and I have noticed this pattern of omissions over the years (and not only with JW scores).

 

The thing is that in the 1990s, there were issues that led to really short soundtrack albums (30-40 minutes) and so naturally those omitted tons of good stuff.

 

Here, though, those issues are not present, and the album clearly has room for a lot more (at least 13 minutes), and this chase music is likely to be a highlight for anyone, given that it stands out even just from that one-minute clip. It does make it rather mystifying that JW did not consider this chase music to be important enough to include. How many people found Perils of the Deep or Water Ballet to be bigger highlights of the score than the horse chase and that which precedes it?

 

(No doubt there are many other albums about which this type of question can be asked...)

[Jay 37,369]

Right!  There doesn't exist a John Williams score where there isn't music that didn't make the OST album that at least one fan would have preferred over some other music that did.

 

This could be an interesting idea for a thread - what criteria does Williams use when deciding what to include on the OST, and what not to?  Maybe some patterns can be found.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

Right!  There doesn't exist a John Williams score where there is music that didn't make the OST album that at least one fan would have preferred over some other music that did.

 

Not only does such a score exist, it probably applies to all of his scores.  (Which of course is what you meant to say)

[Jay 37,369]

Typo fixed

[Holko 9,529]

Water Ballet is great!

[Datameister 2,044]

I frickin love Water Ballet!

 

As a general principle, I don't think JW chooses cues for album inclusion based purely on whether they are "highlights" of the score. If you take just the most conspicuous musical moments from a long score to an action film, you'll end up with a very loud and rather monotonous album program. JW likes his albums to flow between pieces with different moods and dynamic levels.

 

Of course, I've disagreed with lots of his specific choices over the years. But as a general approach, I get it. And I think it works very well for this particular album.

[JWisgreatestlivingcomposer 43]

Just now, Datameister said:

I frickin love Water Ballet!

 

As a general principle, I don't think JW chooses cues for album inclusion based purely on whether they are "highlights" of the score. If you take just the most conspicuous musical moments from a long score to an action film, you'll end up with a very loud and rather monotonous album program. JW likes his albums to flow between pieces with different moods and dynamic levels.

 

Of course, I've disagreed with lots of his specific choices over the years. But as a general approach, I get it. And I think it works very well for this particular album.

Yes, Water Ballet is quite good but not (in my view) as memorable as the missing chase music. I'm happy they included Water Ballet, I just think there was room for more.

 

I agree that a good score album should NOT be just be all the loud/fast stuff, just like a symphony has quieter and faster/louder parts.

 

Having said all that, I STILL think it's inexplicable that they couldn't have brought this album to over 70 minutes by adding 4-5 minutes of that chase music!

[Jay 37,369]

Just now, Datameister said:

As a general principle, I don't think JW chooses cues for album inclusion based purely on whether they are "highlights" of the score. If you take just the most conspicuous musical moments from a long score to an action film, you'll end up with a very loud and rather monotonous album program. JW likes his albums to flow between pieces with different moods and dynamic levels.

 

Yes, well said!

 

Just now, Datameister said:

Of course, I've disagreed with lots of his specific choices over the years.

 

I think *most* of his fans have!

 

Just now, Datameister said:

But as a general approach, I get it.

 

Yea, I kind of get what he's going for...at least most of the time.  The part I have the hardest time understanding is what the exact same recording is included more than once.

 

Just now, Datameister said:

And I think it works very well for this particular album.

 

Oh on that I disagree.  I find the album doesn't have good flow for a large portion, and the themes don't make the impression that they should.  I can't offer a better way to have done things until I've studied the whole score (at least what we can hear in the film) more, though

[Schilkeman 964]

The album is exactly as long as John Williams thinks it should be. Weird, when we listen to a pop, or even classical album, we don't complain that the pieces are too short. Would Sgt Pepper have been better if it added 5 minutes of music to fill up the vinyl? Should symphonies have been 5 movements just to give people more bang for their buck? We accept this self-editing in almost every other art form except film-scoring, where any material not included makes for an "incomplete" release. 

 

I think JW's thinking is, if you want to hear the full score, watch the movie. That's what it's for. If you want to hear the music, buy the album, as his curated assembly works better as a purely listening experience.