Popular Post Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted July 4, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, Quppa said: love Helena's Theme, but am I the only one who thinks it doesn't really match its namesake? In the concert suite it conveys a sense of longing and romance, but the character in the film evokes neither of those things (just as well, given her relationship to Indy). Of course the theme is extremely versatile and works well integrated into action cues. I think it's more about how Helena romanticizes her adventurous lifestyle crumbs, Martinland, Tydirium and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,213 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Gustavo Joseph said: I'm just so curious to listen to the NY piano-heavy chase music, sounded really interesting in the movie. I have a feeling it is in small chunks rather than a continuous cue, at least in the film mix. There's lots of source music and crowd reactions where the chase music stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 minute ago, Andy said: I have a feeling it is in small chunks rather than a continuous cue, at least in the film mix. There's lots of source music and crowd reactions where the chase music stops. Which is ironically (or not) a very 70s way of scoring the scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quppa 117 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 34 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: I think it's more about how Helena romanticizes her adventurous lifestyle Interesting angle and I guess it works by the end of the film, even though initially she's overtly cynical and just after money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 It's ultimately about how much fun she had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Datameister 2,073 Posted July 4, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2023 The theme barely has any big, schmaltzy renditions in the film, as I recall. Its presence is usually pretty subdued. I interpret the bigger, more romantic settings as reflecting JW's own musical tastes more than anything. He did the same for Marion and Willie, not to mention Leia. There's a "the theme is about how the dude sees her" argument to be made, but ultimately, I think it's just JW writing in an idiom he enjoys and that pays homage to the film's inspirations. oierem, Andy, Docteur Qui and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Datameister said: I think it's just JW writing in an idiom he enjoys and that pays homage to the film's inspirations. Two other interesting elements here: for one thing, this one is not for a love interest, so it's not playing the same role that Marion's and Willie's themes (and maybe "The Austrian Way") play, or fitting into the same slot in the film's mosaic of archetypes. It's cool to have this melody in the score, and JW does incredible things with it, but its concert form is even more at odds with Helena's character than is Marion's (which could, as noted, plausibly describe Indy's feelings) or Willie's (which could plausibly describe her simplistic view of romance). Honestly, the script doesn't do much to establish even a familial love for Helena within Indy, something it could have accomplished with another flashback (or even a bit more time spent on the existing flashback to her childhood). A few nods in that direction could have explained the Golden Age love theme approach for the character. The second oddity is that this type of theme was clearly Mangold's request, per both his and Williams' claims. He must have just wanted that kind of Marion-type music in the film, which again makes it weird that he didn't provide any relationship in the story that demands music in that mode. Months ago someone here (perhaps in jest) theorized that Helena was going to be some sort of reincarnation of Helen of Troy, an idea that kept haunting me into the theater, justifying the musical approach in a way the actual story never did. Quppa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,251 Posted July 4, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2023 Finally saw the film. A couple moments I wanted to call out: The very opening would make a great FYC track. Love the deep chime right on the title card! The film version of the Tuk Tuk sequence has a fantastic version of the Raiders B-theme, it’s only action-mode appearance in the score. The ending of the Tuk Tuk In Tangiers track actually shows up much later in the film, when they drive the wedding car chasing after Teddy, but doesn’t appear during the Tuk Tuk chase. Tracking or JW combining music from different scenes in one album track? Tydirium, Edmilson, Brando and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,522 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Did anyone else feel Jaws 2 intro vibes during the diving scenes (Water Ballet)? And I thought those eels sounded a bit like mynocks. And whose theme is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustavo Joseph 29 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 10 hours ago, Quppa said: I love Helena's Theme, but am I the only one who thinks it doesn't really match its namesake? In the concert suite it conveys a sense of longing and romance, but the character in the film evokes neither of those things (just as well, given her relationship to Indy). Of course the theme is extremely versatile and works well integrated into action cues. Marion's Theme is similar in not really reflecting the strong and tough nature of the character as presented in Raiders of the Lost Ark, but Dan Golding in the Art of the Score podcast (starts at ~30:00) posits a compelling theory that it works if one considers it to represent 'Indiana thinking of Marion'. I don't know if I can think of an explanation like that for Helena's Theme. (The hosts of UnderScore made similar comments about Marion's theme in this episode (~12:30).) Before watching the movie I thought the theme sounded really anacronic, after all it's a 1960's woman, but she's photographed and dressed up as woman from the 1930's , and I guess Williams reacted to that, and he's right as usual: fits the movie perfectly. BB-8 and Tydirium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,213 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 @BB-8 I think JW’s use of harp and the title Water Ballet recalls the “Ballet for Divers” from Jaws 2. Am I crazy or for the eel reveal, is the pizzicato the same as that of the Raiders tarantulas, but with additional percussion? BB-8 and BrotherSound 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,915 Posted July 4, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2023 I think Spielberg left a clue that Indiana Jone's successor will be our Johnny. He looks great in the fedora I think. mEsXL7Du6v5fIhrX.mp4 Edmilson, Andy, Mr. Who and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,213 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 He really does wear it well. I could see him wearing the seaplane grey one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BB-8 3,522 Posted July 4, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2023 29 minutes ago, karelm said: I think Spielberg left a clue that Indiana Jone's successor will be our Johnny. He looks great in the fedora I think. mEsXL7Du6v5fIhrX.mp4 5.17 MB · 0 downloads So did Mangold...there are rumours that it was neither Harrison Ford, nor Phoebe, nor Archimedes who snatched the hat off the washing line at the end of DoD... Manakin Skywalker, Martinland, Docteur Qui and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,213 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Top Men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,436 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 I was wondering if anyone knew what was the instrument playing a couple of notes when Hauke and Teddy fall from the wooden bridge into the water. It sounds like an electric guitar which is kinda of weird given it's the only moment there's something like it in the whole movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F 100 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 On 3/7/2023 at 12:56 AM, TolkienSS said: I have to say, sadly, this is one of the worst assembled JW sountracks of his career. Like, why the hell put the end credits as a "prologue", and cut the actual prologue down to 4 minutes of rerecorded temp? EXACTLY my thoughts. For as great as Williams is he is the worst when it comes to his album assemblies. He doesn’t know what his fans want. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,522 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 hour ago, May the Force be with You said: I was wondering if anyone knew what was the instrument playing a couple of notes when Hauke and Teddy fall from the wooden bridge into the water. It sounds like an electric guitar which is kinda of weird given it's the only moment there's something like it in the whole movie. Perhaps a dulcimer of some kind? Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cerebral Cortex 3,358 Posted July 4, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2023 15 hours ago, Datameister said: The theme barely has any big, schmaltzy renditions in the film, as I recall. Its presence is usually pretty subdued. I interpret the bigger, more romantic settings as reflecting JW's own musical tastes more than anything. He did the same for Marion and Willie, not to mention Leia. There's a "the theme is about how the dude sees her" argument to be made, but ultimately, I think it's just JW writing in an idiom he enjoys and that pays homage to the film's inspirations. I also think you could make the case that Williams writing the theme in that way, in addition to stuff like bringing ASM in for a different recording of the theme, is what makes the project interesting for him. Getting to write stuff that is more creatively challenging while also leaning more into that concert space that he already seems more geared towards at this point in his life is what probably helps make these projects worthwhile for him at this point in his life. crumbs, BB-8, crocodile and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,522 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Is it Don Williams on timps? Judging by the sound it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 15 minutes ago, BB-8 said: Is it Don Williams on timps? Judging by the sound it is. How can you tell? Don is indeed credited as a musician, see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,522 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jilal said: How can you tell? By comparing the timp sound on recent Star Wars OST where Don Williams was rather prominent. There are timp players that stand out and can be identified on recordings, e.g. the former principal timp of the Philharmonia London, Andy Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Wouldn't the sound reflect the type of timpani and recording techniques used rather than the musician playing them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,522 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 I think I can read Donald Williams here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,213 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 I want the timpani music as the Nazi boat shows up alongside the diving boat. That was sublime in the film. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,522 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jilal said: Wouldn't the sound reflect the type of timpani and recording techniques used rather than the musician playing them? Not if it's an exceptional player like in the case of Andy Smith who seemed to be adding his own extra thrust no matter who was conducting. Don Williams is rather impressive I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,168 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, BB-8 said: I think I can read Donald Williams here: Well as @Jilal said, he is credited as a musician... BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 34 minutes ago, Andy said: I want the timpani music as the Nazi boat shows up alongside the diving boat. That was sublime in the film. You mean this? Just kidding! I agree, that was a pretty cool moment. Brando and Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,904 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 3 hours ago, May the Force be with You said: I was wondering if anyone knew what was the instrument playing a couple of notes when Hauke and Teddy fall from the wooden bridge into the water. It sounds like an electric guitar which is kinda of weird given it's the only moment there's something like it in the whole movie. I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but the only things that really stand out there are two anvil hits. Not sure if this is what you meant: clip.mp3 Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,436 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 That's exactly what I meant. It really disturbed me the first time I've watched, I thought it was some kind of phone ringing in the theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,522 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said: I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but the only things that really stand out there are two anvil hits. Not sure if this is what you meant: clip.mp3 78.57 kB · 63 downloads Could it be something like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,904 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 43 minutes ago, BB-8 said: Could it be something like this? I don't think so. Very often in similar scenes John will have a few high-pitched anvil hits exactly like this, I think sometimes paired with high piano clusters (possibly what we're hearing here). karelm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,404 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but the only things that really stand out there are two anvil hits. Not sure if this is what you meant: clip.mp3 78.57 kB · 118 downloads This clip makes it sound like some kind of boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,631 Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 I saw the film a second time in a regular cinema (not imax) and I could hear the music better. The standout unreleased music are: -Indy on the Train Roof . At least 4-5 minutes or original action music -School Relic Room: Mysterious music as Indy shows Helena the dial -School Relic Room Escape :Action cue -Indy rides the Horse :70's style action music -Tuktuk in Tangiers Part 2 :At least 4-5 minutes action music with Raiders march variations -Archimedes Tomb Part 2: Climactic part of the cue as Voller assembles the dial -Flight towards the Fissure: Lots of Nazi themes ending with KoTCs music re-use -Syracuse Battle Part 2: I heard an unreleased version of Archimedes theme in there. -End credits: about 3 minutes of unreleased Nazi themes There's probably a lot more I can't remember Pawel P., Bayesian, Fabulin and 7 others 3 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,484 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, King Mark said: I saw the film a second time in a regular cinema (not imax) and I could hear the music better. The standout unreleased music are: -Indy on the Train Roof . At least 4-5 minutes or original action music -School Relic Room: Mysterious music as Indy shows Helena the dial -School Relic Room Escape :Action cue -Indy rides the Horse :70's style action music -Tuktuk in Tangiers Part 2 :At least 4-5 minutes action music with Raiders march variations -Archimedes Tomb Part 2: Climactic part of the cue as Voller assembles the dial -Flight towards the Fissure: Lots of Nazi themes leading to KoTCs music re-use -Syracuse Battle Part 2: I heard an unrelased version of Archimedes theme in there. There's probably a lot more I can't remember did you stay for the end credits? was there different music that plays after the prologue bit in the end credits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 yeah I forgot .Those could be film cues edited in there though There was another cue with unreleased Helena's Theme variations but I forget where Bellosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 3 hours ago, King Mark said: School Relic Room: Mysterious music as Indy shows Helena the dial Isn't this on the album? Second half of Voller Returns. I'd say at least half of the unreleased music from the New York scenes is temp-tracked material from MR and WOTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,251 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 7 hours ago, BB-8 said: Is it Don Williams on timps? Judging by the sound it is. Pretty sure it’s Don throughout, except for perhaps a few passages that sound like they may be doubled with a second timpanist, likely Greg Goodall, who I believed played all the 2nd timpani on The Rise of Skywalker and The Lost World. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,915 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 15 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: I don't think so. Very often in similar scenes John will have a few high-pitched anvil hits exactly like this, I think sometimes paired with high piano clusters (possibly what we're hearing here). That's exactly what I'm hearing. Just a high piano cluster and remember it caught my ear as well in the theater too. For those who saw the film, was it extremely loud (painfully so) or just my theater? 11 hours ago, BrotherSound said: Pretty sure it’s Don throughout, except for perhaps a few passages that sound like they may be doubled with a second timpanist, likely Greg Goodall, who I believed played all the 2nd timpani on The Rise of Skywalker and The Lost World. It's definitely Don. Not just the sound but his level of involvement plus Don has done all of Johnny's LA soundtracks. I was surprised to see Jerry wasn't on this one. Manakin Skywalker and BrotherSound 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 Really love Battle of Syracuse. It's more in the gritty Spartacus sound than something like Ben-Hur but it's cool to see JW tackle a scene like that (a natural choice for DOD highlight playlists). BB-8, Brando, Docteur Qui and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laserschwert 477 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 I was really surprised by the amount of LC music in the prologue. I've constantly heard bits of "On the Tank" and the LC Nazi theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 8,048 Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 Having seen the film for the second time after hearing the album, I have to say I am not very impressed with the 67-minute programme. It's not so much about the stuff that's on the album but more about how much good stuff is missing. Seems like the presentation is micro-edited to hell and back. There's lots missing. Absolutely loved the thriller NYC segment and almost none of it is on the album. The the entire climax from the Archimedes's tomb scene until the end is so good in the film. Not to mention they removed quite a lot of Indy's theme from major sequences. This simply is not sufficient to do this score any justice. I had a sense of storytelling clarity in the film that doesn't translate well to whatever Williams produced for his album. Also, the first music we hear in the film is the same material we hear in the prologue track starting from 1:07. Karol BrotherSound, Brando, Raiders of the SoundtrArk and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,168 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 hour ago, crocodile said: Having seen the film for the second time after hearing the album, I have to say I am not very impressed with the 67-minute programme. It's not so much about the stuff that's on the album but more about how much good stuff is missing. Seems like the presentation is micro-edited to hell and back. There's lots missing. Absolutely loved the thriller NYC segment and almost none of it is on the album. The the entire climax from the Archimedes's tomb scene until the end is so good in the film. Not to mention they removed quite a lot of Indy's theme from major sequences. This simply is not sufficient to do this score any justice. Karol Couldn’t agree more. I was encouraged by some of the early reviews here saying that the album had all the good stuff and there weren’t any “Holy Grails” missing, but then when I went and saw the film I couldn’t believe how much good stuff was in the opening flashback sequence! We’re missing TONS of great music from this score. I don’t even care if a decent amount of it is re-recordings of music from the original films; it’s still different enough that it would have been nice to have. But even aside from the reused stuff, there were multiple thrilling new action cues which still didn’t make it onto the OST. I really don’t get it. Brando and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Tydirium said: was encouraged by some of the early reviews here saying that the album had all the good stuff and there weren’t any “Holt Grails” missing, Manakin Skywalker, Jilal, Tydirium and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,168 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 19 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,251 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 2 hours ago, crocodile said: Also, the first music we hear in the film is the same material we hear in the prologue track starting from 1:07. It’s similar, but not quite the same. For instance, the film version has a loud chime right on the title card. Tydirium and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,580 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 14 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: It’s similar, but not quite the same. For instance, the film version has a loud chime right on the title card. Maybe the OST version is an alternate of the film version? Wouldn't be the first time for Johnny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,838 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 I desperately want to hear a clean version of the NYC chase music. It just sounds so different to the rest of the score. I’d be really interested to hear about that choice. Not Mr. Big and MikeH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 Has anyone pointed out that a fragment of Water Ballet is used in the film for the scene where the planes lose control after breaching the time fissure? However, I don't think this is OST editing trickery – the same music appears in the film for the eels sequence: Starting to wonder if the film version of the time fissure scene is all tracked? Not only does the fragment of Spell of the Skull (as they're entering the fissure) sound almost identical to the KOCS recording, but it appears the following scene is tracked with music from Water Ballet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 Your the first one that found this. At least we have some of this cue but probably some of the actual underwater cue is unreleased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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