Ludwig Göransson - OPPENHEIMER (2023)

[MaxMovieMan 273]

There’s a few missing tracks I noticed from the film. They’re mainly variations on the "Can You Hear the Music?" theme.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I saw it in 70mm IMAX - as intended. 

 

I found the score distracting and too loud in the film. It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.

 

I could discern some some variation in the music but it seemed largely same-y.

 

Not impressed.

[p0llux 400]

The score did it's job, and it excelled mostly at tension building and maintaining forward momentum. The presence of some strings in a few places reminds us of Jonny Greenwood or Carter Burwell, but the rest was just atmospheric sound design. Ludwig is definitely a talented musician, but atmospheric sound design scores are not interesting to me. Black Panther was the only score that I enjoyed from him. The way Oppenheimer was scored reminds me of how TV shows are scored. They don't have the budget for a real orchestra, so the score was more experimental, minimalistic and synthesized. My biased opinion is this film was a huge missed opportunity for a moving orchestral score that would stand the test of time.

 

Otherwise this was an incredibly well written, acted, and edited film with an atmospheric score that works.

Music as Written for the Film: 4/5
Music as Heard on album: 3.5/5

[crocodile 8,020]

The album definitely picks up with Trinity segment. Not sure if I like it but there's some interesting stuff in there. Sort of like Zimmer, Richter, Greenwood, Stranger Things and Watchmen TV score all rolled into one. It's a very dour stew, to be sure, but not without some merit.

 

It's interesting that decided to evoke Mozart, even if faintly, for the second time in a row. First he gives us this mournful apotheosis of Shuri's theme here:

 

 

And now he evokes the weight on Oppenheimer's shoulders here:

 

 

Karol

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

This is art man.

[KK 3,307]

2 hours ago, crocodile said:

The album definitely picks up with Trinity segment. Not sure if I like it but there's some interesting stuff in there. Sort of like Zimmer, Richter, Greenwood, Stranger Things and Watchmen TV score all rolled into one.

 

It's an uber-lightweight version of all those things

 

I like it in parts, but it does still feel like a clumsy collection of suggestions rather than score with a compelling identity, especially given the material it's working with.

 

Although Trinity mostly plays like a really poor man's Shaker Loops, the all-too-brief musically adventurous moments tease a ballsier score that could have been...

 

 

Anyway, I'd rather listen to the Oppenheimer opera:

 

 

 

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

 

[badbu 123]

that cue is also very nice  

 

 

[MaxMovieMan 273]

After a few listens and seeing the film twice I’m beginning to get a good sense of the themes. Really it’s the two Oppenheimer themes and Groves’ material that take up the majority. Kitty has a theme but it’s very underutilized. 

[JTN 2,048]

3 minutes ago, MaxMovieMan said:

After a few listens and seeing the film twice I’m beginning to get a good sense of the themes. Really it’s the two Oppenheimer themes and Groves’ material that take up the majority. Kitty has a theme but it’s very underutilized. 

You’ve seen a 3-hour film about the creation of the atomic bomb, that’s been in theaters for less than a week, twice? Well, guess better that than Barbie. 

[MaxMovieMan 273]

Seeing it again tomorrow hopefully. I’m not gonna lie these kind of movies are my favorite.

[Mr. Who 919]

4 minutes ago, MaxMovieMan said:

Seeing it again tomorrow hopefully. I’m not gonna lie these kind of movies are my favorite.

I’m seeing it a second time next week hopefully. It’s a brilliant film. 

[Chewy 2,396]

On 23/07/2023 at 4:26 PM, TheUlyssesian said:

It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.

Very good!

[Quppa 117]

Edith Bowman interviewed Christopher Nolan about the music: https://audioboom.com/posts/8339349-episode-379-christopher-nolan-on-the-music-of-oppenheimer

 

He's another director who doesn't use temp scores (Christopher McQuarrie made the same comment).

 

Göransson is on next week's episode.

[Holko 9,532]

So I actually like the score enough that I'd buy it, it's goddamn 2023, I go to all the digital stores I know are not geolocked for whatever cretinous reasons, and once again it's fucking nowhere. Fuck these dumbasses.

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,287]

On 23/07/2023 at 3:26 PM, TheUlyssesian said:

I saw it in 70mm IMAX - as intended. 

 

I found the score distracting and too loud in the film. It was nearly constant, blaring loudly and drowning out dialog.

 

I could discern some some variation in the music but it seemed largely same-y.

 

Not impressed.

Ditto aside from IMAX (although Leicester Square Odeon is still a very fine cinema to watch it), but totally agree on the music. As I said in my longer review in the 2023 movies thread, the scoring made each dialogue scene sound like it was either part of a montage or from a trailer, urging on to the next scene, rarely letting the scenes breathe and not letting the actors bring their own drama. It meant that truly pivotal scenes were scored to the same level of intensity and were thus robbed of a lot of their impact. So many scenes needed the quiet of an empty room or lecture hall but didn't get it.

 

As I also noted in my comments (link below), the music seemed to always fill the entire aural space rather so it's not surprising the dialogue was often drowned out. There was no writing music around the dialogue or ebb and flow to scenes, just ratcheting up the tension over and over. He just doesn't seem that great at spotting his films for music; I mean, everything was scored in more or less the same style, so it didn't actually feel like there was much nuance to the spotting. "Yeah, can we have some tense strings/electronics here... and here... and here... oh and there, there and there... maybe a bit louder here" - repeat for 3 hours.

 

Anyway, more blathering on this here...  I'm gonna listen to some Shostakovich.

 

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

my piano arrangement of the first two parts of Meeting Kitty

[Gustavo Joseph 29]

Just saw the movie yesterday, a lot of good things, but much more Oliver Stonish than I thought (not a praise), very bad role for Emily Blunt (a collage of Oscar bait sequences). The score is so present and strong in the film, I doubt anyone can get in the way of Goransson's second Oscar.

[Not Mr. Big 4,642]

Saw the film last night.  One of the best films of the last few years, maybe Nolan's very best.  The juxtaposition of all the nuclear shit and RDJ and Oppenheimer's petty drama was brilliant.

 

It didn't have memorable tunes or whatever some people here wanted but Ludwig's score was a major contributor to the film's success.  He's able to use a lot of trademark Zimmerisms without just sounding like a copy of Zimmer

[CrimsonRain96 11]

On 27/7/2023 at 7:58 PM, Gustavo Joseph said:

Just saw the movie yesterday, a lot of good things, but much more Oliver Stonish than I thought (not a praise), very bad role for Emily Blunt (a collage of Oscar bait sequences). The score is so present and strong in the film, I doubt anyone can get in the way of Goransson's second Oscar.

Save for maybe Zimmer with his score for Dune Part 2. But that’s assuming Dune Part 2 won’t be delayed, like I’ve been hearing whispers about as of late……..

[KK 3,307]

I seriously doubt Zimmer will win again for Dune.

 

Ludwig is indeed the current frontrunner.

[Edmilson 7,474]

Between the two of them, I think LG has a bigger shot than Zimmer, especially now that Dune 2 may be moved to 2024. 

 

But that, of course, will depend less of the quality of the scores and more of their Oscar campaigns. If Oppenheimer becomes one of those movies that gets a ton of nominations only to see the main ones (Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, etc) go to an indie competitor, then it may won the Best Score award as a form of compensation.

 

It's always like this: awards like Best Score, Visual Effects, Sound Mixing, etc., pretty much always go to well regarded movies that don't have a shot on the major awards because the Academy prefer their competitors.

[DangerMotif 1,038]

Dial Of Destiny is the best score this year by miles

[Not Mr. Big 4,642]

9 minutes ago, DangerMotif said:

Dial Of Destiny is the best score this year by miles

Fabelmans was better 

[DangerMotif 1,038]

15 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Fabelmans was better 

Not the same year

[Not Mr. Big 4,642]

6 minutes ago, DangerMotif said:

Not the same year

I know

[Trope 527]

1 hour ago, DangerMotif said:

Dial Of Destiny is the best score this year by miles

In my view, every Williams score is the best score of whatever year he wrote it! His music is on another level.

 

That being said, if we put Dial of Destiny aside, Oppenheimer is by far my favourite of 2023 so far, followed by Elemental. I'm still yet to listen to The Flash and The Little Mermaid.

[Not Mr. Big 4,642]

Dial of Destiny and Oppenheimer are very good and different scores

[Brundlefly 2,385]

6 hours ago, DangerMotif said:

Dial Of Destiny is the best score this year by miles

Göransson was better and Zimmer will be better probably.

[Not Mr. Big 4,642]

Zimmer's Dune was underwhelming 

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

4 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Zimmer's Dune was underwhelming 

 

I thought it was overwhelming in the film, but not in a particularly good way.

[Not Mr. Big 4,642]

1 minute ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I thought it was overwhelming in the film, but not in a particularly good way.

It's very loud but does little for the film emotionally (unlike Oppenheimer and Zimmer's own Nolan scores).  

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Exactly. Oppenheimer had a few moments where the score was very overwhelming, but they made sense and were very effective.

[Not Mr. Big 4,642]

I feel like Villaineve's musical vision is pretty boring and sterile (Jòhann Jòhannsson's more textural work served it better than Zimmer's "big picture" type approach)

[KK 3,307]

Oppenheimer was also largely overwhelming (not in a good way…courtroom monologues don’t need to be scored like the climax of a Batman film). But yes it did help create potent cinematic moments. I also felt that Dune was mostly inert in comparison.

 

Jóhannsson’s scores actually played as effective counterpoint to those early Villeneuve’s films.

[Not Mr. Big 4,642]

30 minutes ago, KK said:

Oppenheimer was also largely overwhelming (not in a good way…courtroom monologues don’t need to be scored like the climax of a Batman film). But yes it did help create potent cinematic moments. I also felt that Dune was mostly inert in comparison.

I feel like the courtroom music went very well with the vibe Nolan was going for (though in general, portraying that moment as a triumphant kind of "gotcha" moment was one of the film's few missteps for me.  It makes a bit too much noise about how Oppenheimer was unfairly mistreated, despite the fact that most everything RDJ says about him is true)

[KK 3,307]

Oh I’m sure that plays to Nolan’s intentions, but as you say, it cheapens the scene and also betrays a “lesser film” if you will. I think the hypocrisies of both men that Nolan smartly lays out would just read so much stronger if score was different, and RDJ wasn’t made to sound like he was the Joker (cheesy col legnos galore and Bane-esque synth stabs 🙄) or something.

 

It also doesn’t help that all the “ramp up the tension” cues pretty much sound the same.

[Edmilson 7,474]

In context, this might be one of the best cues of the year:

 

 

If only some cues were dialed down, it would've had much more impact, though.

[Mephariel 451]

20 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Göransson was better and Zimmer will be better probably.

 

I agree. I definitely prefer Oppenheimer to DOD and probably will prefer Dune 2. 

 

Comparing Oppenheimer to Dune, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. I think Dune did more to transport me to another world, has stronger themes, and more unique sounds. But Oppenheimer has more interesting texture, and is utilize a bit more effectively in the film in key moments. Like one of the poster above said, Dune focuses better on the big picture while Oppenheimer focuses better on the details. 

[MaxMovieMan 273]

I honestly love both Dune and Oppenheimer’s scores. They’re perfect for each of their films. Score-work at the top of its craft. The movies wouldn’t be the same without their music.

[Bayesian 1,364]

Watched Oppenheimer last night in a cavernous IMAX theater. The film is an amazing achievement, easily the best pic frontrunner for 2023. I give Nolan (a filmmaker I’ve been ambivalent about for years) full marks for the story he tells here and the nonlinear way he tells it.

 

I agree with the minority here, though, about the music. You can’t help but notice (endure?) how loud it is. It’s a nearly nonstop aural assault dialed up to 11. At least, thankfully, Nolan chose not use music (or any sound) during the extraordinary Trinity test scene. 

Oppenheimer might well be the apotheosis of maximal sound design in film. The music is barely musical, instead serving as some kind of demented version of an audio description aid like the kind you can turn on for a streaming service, one that hardly ever shuts up. Agitated, screechy violins and strings to convey intellectual torment, pounding, quickening synth beats to convey emotions coming to a head, dead silence interrupted by maxed-out crashing noise to convey… not sure what, exactly, other than a startle that gets old quick, followed by a headache.
 

As others have accurately said, Göransson’s music often drowns out the dialogue, which is actually not his fault; the music and sound design that go hand in hand in this film are simply mixed far too loudly and far too often. It’s an unfortunate demerit against what I’d otherwise say is Nolan’s best film to date. 

[iamleyeti 114]

I really like the music and I think that Nolan as found with Göransson an excellent collaborator. The sound design, the sound editing, the music work together and they actually matter in the storytelling, something that is very rarely seen in Hollywood movies nowadays (and sorry, but a needle drop isn't sound editing). Yes, sometimes you can't hear the dialogues but that's the goal. Nolan doesn't want you to listen and understand, he wants you to hear and feel, IMO.

 

The score is quite surprising, takes a lot of space, goes in a many directions. Loved it and it felt very well mixed and powerful. Whereas Dial of Destiny, which I love, is poorly mixed and barely heard throughout the picture.

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

 

[ddddeeee 259]

My CD just shipped from Mondo. Wasn't expecting it until September, so that's a nice surprise.

[MedigoScan 324]

I just saw the movie in an IMAX screening, and while the music was certainly near omnipresent I cant say it was particularly loud (except for key moments of course)

Maybe mixing was just worse in some places?

 

[ddddeeee 259]

I never found the music intrusive in terms of volume, but there are quite a few conversations that are scored that really didn't need to be. 

 

I got my cd a few days ago. Liner notes from Göransson and Nolan. 

[MedigoScan 324]

I think it works when its meant to emphasize Oppenheimers POV, maybe less so when we're focusing on Strauss.

They at least did know to have the scene before the bomb drop preparations be one of the silent ones, to have a break... (even if that break was the horror of choosing what city to bomb)

 

edit: also noticed a lot of the microediting this time around. But I suppose thats understandable for the OST, because not everyone would be able to enjoy Trinity being almost twice as long

[Toillion 215]

Mondo’s vinyl release of the score just came in! So far it sounds great and it looks great too.

[crocodile 8,020]

I watched the movie for the second time today (which I mentioned in the Nolan thread) and have to say the score has really grown on me. It's not the most innovative thing out there, and generally not my type of writing style, but it does successfully manage to stir some emotion where appropriate. I am actually listening to the album at the moment and it is a pleasant laid-back evening experience.

 

Karol