HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Today is the 32nd anniversary of the day Hook opened in theaters, and The Legacy of John Williams has published an essay from @John Takis titled "John Williams and the Music of ‘Hook’"

 

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2023/12/11/hook-essay-by-john-takis/

 

Podcasts coming soon!

Nice 🙂

[Jay 37,371]

The Second Disc has an article about The Ultimate Edition

 

https://theseconddisc.com/2023/12/11/holiday-gift-guide-review-john-williams-hook-the-ultimate-edition/

[JohnnyD 1,223]

Just finished listening from beginning to end. My God, what a thrill it is to have the ENTIRE score and songs in one beautifully-done package. The remastered and restored sound is unbelievable. I had the film itself, the original 1991 album, and LLL's 2012 "expanded and remastered" edition (and still own the film on 4K Blu-ray). This release is like I was hearing the music for the first time. The pristine detail in the restoration is incredible. I teared up quite a bit. I also loved reading the liner notes. Very insightful and fascinating. Truly phenomenal. A big thank you to Maestro John Williams, lyricist Leslie Bricusse, Mike Matessino, Jason LeBlanc, John Takis and everyone else involved in this truly beautiful complete release. "Good form."

[Jay 37,371]

Thank you @JohnnyD, very kind!

[JohnnyD 1,223]

53 minutes ago, Jay said:

Thank you @JohnnyD, very kind!

 

"Indeed, good form."

 

You are most welcome. I'll also add that hearing the unused sections of music in the score as well as all previously unreleased music was revelatory. LOVE IT! Also, for Apple Music library, I changed my mind and decided to use the Drew Struzan cover on the booklet as the album art for discs 1 & 2 and use the front cover as the album art for disc 3.

Prior to receiving this, I happily threw the obsolete 2012 LLL 2-disc set in the trash.

[Tom 4,666]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Today is the 32nd anniversary of the day Hook opened in theaters, and The Legacy of John Williams has published an essay from @John Takis titled "John Williams and the Music of ‘Hook’"

 

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2023/12/11/hook-essay-by-john-takis/

Lovely and nicely personal article.  I am not sure why, but the picture of the young JW (well, 1980s' young) made me a little sad--that man has been such a large part of me life for decades.  

 

He scores childhood so well.  Hook, HA, HP, ET, BFG--damn.  

[Jay 37,371]

Here's an article about The Mask of Zorro which features a lengthy description of a visit to the Hook set on May 31, 1991

 

https://www.slashfilm.com/1416901/the-mask-of-zorro-oral-history-interviews/

 

Spielberg was quite the multi-tasker!

[1977 1,743]

19 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

I happily threw the obsolete 2012 LLL 2-disc set in the trash.

 

A euphemism surely?

[Alex 2,835]

I was always convinced that the tune of Childhood was based off a song where someone was singing something along the lines of Peeeeter... Peeeeeter. I am happy that has been cleared up now.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Question: Farewell Neverland (Alternate Short version) is an intended cue for a shorter alternate edit of the finale or is just an additional track that omits the middle cue created for the narrative of the 3rd disc?. Reading the liner notes implies that, but the name of the track implies the former...

 

I suppose there was no available disc space to place the complete finale. Is the first segment a different performance or the same as the main program?

 

 

[cptgame446 11]

Can someone tell me, what's the story behind all the lyrical versions of the themes on the soundtrack?  Was the movie going to be a musical at first?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Yes it was.

[cptgame446 11]

3 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Yes it was.

Wow, I never knew that. My god I'm so glad Spielberg changed his mind lol 

[Jay 37,371]

2 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Question: Farewell Neverland (Alternate Short version) is an intended cue for a shorter alternate edit of the finale or is just an additional track that omits the middle cue created for the narrative of the 3rd disc?. Reading the liner notes implies that, but the name of the track implies the former...

 

I suppose there was no available disc space to place the complete finale. Is the first segment a different performance or the same as the main program?

 

It's the same performances as the normal version, only the end is different. And yes, removing the (non thematic) middle cue allowed for more bonus tracks (and strengthened the musical narrative)

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

35 minutes ago, cptgame446 said:

Can someone tell me, what's the story behind all the lyrical versions of the themes on the soundtrack?  Was the movie going to be a musical at first?

John Williams made them as a joke to throw off JWfans.  Now every JW expansion is gonna have fake songs based on the score's themes

[King Mark 3,631]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

It's the same performances as the normal version, only the end is different. And yes, removing the (non thematic) middle cue allowed for more bonus tracks (and strengthened the musical narrative)

yeah but you should have known a lot of us here would want to put the version with that awesome ending in the main score program, so now we have to re-edit the middle back in ourselves

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

12 minutes ago, King Mark said:

yeah but you should have known a lot of us here would want to put the version with that awesome ending in the main score program, so now we have to re-edit the middle back in ourselves

I don’t see any reason to complain on this one. Since it’s the same takes it’s a super easy edit to do.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

On the other hand, where i was dissapointed at first as the two cues were meant to merge, in the end im glad rufios entrance is separate from the lost boys chase, so we can edit it easily with any of the two versions. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

5 hours ago, King Mark said:

yeah but you should have known a lot of us here would want to put the version with that awesome ending in the main score program, so now we have to re-edit the middle back in ourselves

 

It's no different from any other case where one prefers an alternate version to a film version and wants it in the main program. I've had several of those and have to work out how to work it in.

 

Given the number of bonus and alternate tracks, and hence repetition in this set, you can surely handle one more. It's just not possible to represent every single idea/variation Williams did without having to play some bits twice.

 

I'm not saying 'don't complain'... I'm saying... you got what you wanted and it's 99% perfect.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I just read that childhood, mothers and believe are modern 2001 demos for a cancelled bricusse musical.

 

I'm really missing the 90's sessions julie andrews version of Childhood, i would have loved to add it to the main program.

 

Moira's lullaby is for an alternate scene of "Saying goodnight", right? Is it sung by Caroline Goodall?

[John Takis 206]

51 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Moira's lullaby is for an alternate scene of "Saying goodnight", right? Is it sung by Caroline Goodall?

 

Yes and yes.

[mstrox 6,651]

1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

 

 

I'm really missing the 90's sessions julie andrews version of Childhood, i would have loved to add it to the main program.

 

I’m sure All Will Be revealed in the future as has been foretold, but the booklet heavily implies that it was a scratch vocal just used to guide the film actress and not meant to be heard.

[King Mark 3,631]

Am I hearing synthesizers in the orchestral version of When Your Alone?

[mstrox 6,651]

Just got a chance to read your essay @John Takis, and want to say it’s very nice.  I remember the long years of your burning torch for Hook and the VHS rips.  Maybe they’ll finally do right by Temple of Doom for you next!

[John Takis 206]

31 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Am I hearing synthesizers in the orchestral version of When Your Alone?

 

Performing the melody? I believe so. There's actually tastefully deployed synth throughout Hook ... for example, I believe it's usually a synth celeste.

 

Glad you enjoyed the essay, @mstrox!

[Jay 37,371]

10 hours ago, King Mark said:

yeah but you should have known a lot of us here would want to put the version with that awesome ending in the main score program, so now we have to re-edit the middle back in ourselves

 

Removing the middle cue of Farewell Neverland on disc 3 allowed the instrumental When You're Alone, alternate Exit Music, and vamp section of Take Me Out To The Ball Game to be added. You wouldn't have those if the track contained all three cues again.

[Hook1991 10]

I absolutely love this new release! It is fantastic! Very well produced and made. So amazing to hear the battle music in great quality without volume dips. Well done LaLaLand Records! Great job I am very impressed. Hook is the first movie remember watching as a kid. It has always been my favorite John Williams soundtrack.

[King Mark 3,631]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Removing the middle cue of Farewell Neverland on disc 3 allowed the instrumental When You're Alone, alternate Exit Music, and vamp section of Take Me Out To The Ball Game to be added. You wouldn't have those if the track contained all three cues again.

you are absolved you your sins then .

 

But what I would have done is keep the 3 cues of Leaving Neverland seperate like the recording sessions ( listening wise it wouldn't change anything at all ) and just include the last cue on disk 3, making things easier to move around AND saving disk space

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

6 hours ago, mstrox said:

I’m sure All Will Be revealed in the future as has been foretold, but the booklet heavily implies that it was a scratch vocal just used to guide the film actress and not meant to be heard.

I understood it as like maggie smith was going to lipsync julie andrews performance, and that scene was going to be filmed on the last day, so if they had the andrews performance it should have been a definitive recording…

[mstrox 6,651]

Mods can delete this for copying something verbatim from the booklet if needed, but the booklet says:

 

Spoiler

To accomplish this, Bricusse engaged his equally venerable friend and colleague Julie Andrews to make a recording for Smith to perform to on the set, with the intention of finalizing the track later.

 

[Jay 37,371]

It was a demo that Julia sang, and was essentially the same thing as the Never Song and Stick With Me demos - All of these songs were intended to be sung by the actors if the songs remained in the film, but the scenes were never shot and the actors never recorded their versions. 

[Faleel 5,359]

1 hour ago, King Mark said:

I would keep the 3 cues of Leaving Neverland seperate like the recording sessions and just include the last cue on disk 3, making things easier to move around AND saving disk space

But if they tried that this would pop up:

 

[mstrox 6,651]

You can do a lot worse for a disposable demo than booking Dame Julie Andrews!

1 hour ago, King Mark said:

you are absolved you your sins then .

 

But what I would have done is keep the 3 cues of Leaving Neverland seperate like the recording sessions ( listening wise it wouldn't change anything at all ) and just include the last cue on disk 3, making things easier to move around AND saving disk space

Those extra tracks would have made a great bonus on the end of disc 4, right after the OST

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

While listening to 'Low Bellow Pirate sequence' ending, did anyone look around trying to spot Anakin and Obi-wan fighting in Mustafar?

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

20 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

While listening to 'Low Bellow Pirate sequence' ending, did anyone look around trying to spot Anakin and Obi-wan fighting in Mustafar?

I did and they were right behind me

[Once 605]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

It was a demo that Julia sang, and was essentially the same thing as the Never Song and Stick With Me demos - All of these songs were intended to be sung by the actors if the songs remained in the film, but the scenes were never shot and the actors never recorded their versions. 

Just out of curiosity, was it ever considered including the Julie Andrews-demo on this set? I don't suppose she would agree to that, though.

 

I'm still waiting for my set to arrive and the wait is absolutely killing me! I might start with disc 3... I'm so intrigued by the songs.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

Something I've been curious about but haven't asked because I don't want to come off as though I'm complaining (I'm definitely not!), but was there intended to be synth brass/strings throughout the last third of both versions of Low Below? The brass is definitely synth in the full/vocal version, whereas the strings are synth in the instrumental version (and possibly the vocal version). I have to assume this was either A.) intended by John or B.) temporary and intended to be rerecorded later, but not (due to the song being cut). Then again, they sound a lot more like modern virtual instruments, so I'm not sure what's going on there. They still sound great no matter the situation!

[King Mark 3,631]

Ok so there's this cool march like motif that's in Pirate Sequence Instrumental ( 1.30-2.00) and Smee's Concertina (0.35-0.58) that I wish Williams had used in the main score with his more traditional orchestrations.

[cptgame446 11]

The way that Williams evokes the sound of clocks in the sword fight is so brilliant and incredible. 

[Dirk 0]

Just wondering why is 'The end of Hook' (track 8, disc 2) not ended the way it is ended in the movie? It there ends witch four final bursts of the orchestra as Hook disappears in the mouth of the crocodile, but in this track the music continues after this while in the movie there is silence. Anybody knows why?

[Holko 9,529]

2 minutes ago, Dirk said:

Just wondering why is 'The end of Hook' (track 8, disc 2) not ended the way it is ended in the movie? It there ends witch four final bursts of the orchestra as Hook disappears in the mouth of the crocodile, but in this track the music continues after this while in the movie there is silence. Anybody knows why?

The score was recorded as presented on the disc, but the movie removed that bit of music for dramatic effect (IMO a good decision).

[Jay 37,371]

16 minutes ago, Dirk said:

Just wondering why is 'The end of Hook' (track 8, disc 2) not ended the way it is ended in the movie? It there ends witch four final bursts of the orchestra as Hook disappears in the mouth of the crocodile, but in this track the music continues after this while in the movie there is silence. Anybody knows why?

 

On the album you're hearing what John Williams wrote and recorded for the scene.

 

For the final film, Spielberg decided to drop some of the music in the dubbing stage.

 

There are many other spots throughout the whole movie where Spielberg dropped music that Williams recorded.  I think they are all mentioned in the liner notes.

[Tydirium 1,167]

It would be cool to see that music synced up with the scene, to see how it would have worked (assuming the movie wasn’t edited more after it was recorded).

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

1 hour ago, cptgame446 said:

The way that Williams evokes the sound of clocks in the sword fight is so brilliant and incredible. 

and without resorting to the overused ticking clock synth

[RustyNail 4]

Is the film version of the end credits not on this release?

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

On 12/12/2023 at 1:33 AM, JohnnyD said:

Prior to receiving this, I happily threw the obsolete 2012 LLL 2-disc set in the trash.

 

You could have sold it on Discogs. 

 

6 minutes ago, RustyNail said:

Is the film version of the end credits not on this release?

 

I guess it was dropped because it would have required a fourth disc. 

[Jay 37,371]

12 minutes ago, RustyNail said:

Is the film version of the end credits not on this release?

 

The End Credits assembly that John Williams intended is on the release.

 

For the final film, The Lost Boy Chase section was shortened, and the Exit Music section was replaced by material tracked in from The Arrival of Tink and Farewell Neverland.

[John Takis 206]

8 hours ago, Tydirium said:

It would be cool to see that music synced up with the scene, to see how it would have worked (assuming the movie wasn’t edited more after it was recorded).

 

If you subscribe to Film Score Monthly Online, it's this month's "Score Restore" video! (That's Volume 28, No. 12, December 2023, for future reference.)

[Tydirium 1,167]

1 hour ago, John Takis said:

 

If you subscribe to Film Score Monthly Online, it's this month's "Score Restore" video! (That's Volume 28, No. 12, December 2023, for future reference.)

Oh man! Thank you for the heads-up!

[pete 907]

I just remembered a memory!  The movie came out very spoon after I started listening to Williams on CD. I went to see a different movie, and Hook was finishing in a different theater as we were entering ours. I remember just being mesmerized by the music I could hear from the open door of that theater. It was I'm sure music from the last part of Farewell Neverland - The Christmasy joyous Mother theme. It had me mesmorized and I remember waiting a little bit before going into my theater so I could hear as much as possible. I think at that point I only had about 4 or 5 Williams CDs, and I got Hook as soon as I saw it in a shop.