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Where do you rank the score for "The Last Jedi"?

Where do you rank the score for "The Last Jedi"?  

108 members have voted

  1. 1. Where do you rank John Williams' music for "The Last Jedi" among his previous 'Star Wars' scores?

    • It's his best Star Wars score.
    • It's his second best Star Wars score.
    • It's his third best Star Wars score.
    • It's his fourth best Star Wars score.
    • It's his fifth best Star Wars score.
    • It's his sixth best Star Wars score.
    • It's his seventh best Star Wars score.
    • It's his eighth best Star Wars score.


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Well bad wording. I meant I do not mind his use of old themes if they will get this kind of treatment and performance!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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One issue I have with the film score, that is a reflection of the film itself, is that the music never has room to breath. It's almost all wall to wall big music or dramatic, tense underscore. I really like balanced JW scores with softer, gentler passages of music between the action but TLJ is nearly wall to wall action or drama.

 

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6 hours ago, Score said:

I voted 7th. Overall, I think I prefer it to AOTC, although the highlights of AOTC are better than the highlights of TLJ. 

 

That's my opinion too. The overall average (especially of the action music) is higher than AOTC but AOTC has greater highlights. 

 

Of course placing it at 7th doesn't mean I dislike the score. The top half of Star Wars scores feature some of the greatest scores ever composed, and the bottom half still contains incredible work. 

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I went for eighth but granted I need to let it sit with me, I need to re-re-relisten. The question of TLJ versus AOTC is the main one for me too and I'm inclined to agree that overall TLJ has consistently good material but the highlights of AOTC are just so much grander (i.e. Across the Stars and some other incredible moments) that it has to beat TLJ. Right now that is. I definitely find the reuse of thematic material too much in TLJ. It's disappointing to me, I must admit. I love Star Wars to repeat material, that is what builds the musical world, naturally. But there just wasn't that new strong thematic presence here...Rose's theme is nice but it doesn't quite stand out enough.

I am still processing a lot of things about the film and the score, so this all may change!

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It is not as good as Star Wars, it is not as good as the Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, or The Force Awakens. I personally ignore the existance of the prequels and their music. And rogue one doesnt have music. It has noise composed by the icompetent Giacchino who is consistant in his failures in following the greats.

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17 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

I personally ignore the existance of the prequels and their music.

 

Fixed!

 

17 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

And rogue one doesnt have has music. It has noise a serviceable score composed by the icompetent that well-meaning chap Giacchino who is consistant in his failures shows promise in, one day, following the greats.

 

Also fixed!

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Yeah no John. I ignore tge prequels music and no amount of editing will convince me that Giacchino is a good composer.

For the record when John was Gia's age he wasn't one of the greats. He was already  the greatest suprassing all the old school composers and always one step ahead of Goldsmith and two ahead of Horner.

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TFA and TLJ are my two least favorite scores. Maybe it's because there's a lack of nostalgia at this point, or because I'm 18 years older than I was when we last got a new SW trilogy, but these scores, while not bad, are just not as interesting as the OT or PT. 

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On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 7:52 PM, Nick Parker said:

All this hate for Attack of the Clones, and in the shadows I wonder, with a frown..."Why?" :(

The problem is twofold and they are both related more to the movie than the score proper: the movie is beyond horrific, and two, the 3rd act, which is traditional JW blows you away time, is half TPM music.  Not to mention, Lucas decided not to use the best action material Williams did compose. So, the OST is good, but the score in the movie suffers significantly.  

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On 17/12/2017 at 7:23 PM, Tom said:

You and Bespin are both claiming, then, that another composer would have composed a better score (or at lease a score of equal quality) for this movie. 

 

Sorry, I was (again) drunk when I wrote this. :blush:

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On 12/22/2017 at 6:30 PM, Bespin said:

 

Sorry, I was (again) drunk when I wrote this. :blush:

 

Maybe you should just let us know when you post while sober and we'll just assume you're drunk otherwise.

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I'm prepared to bet that, once we have all nine scores (I doubt whether JW will either want to, or be able to, score X - XII) and listened to them in order, and as they were originally intended to be heard (no tracking, no edits, etc.)  it will amount to the single greatest achievement in motion picture scoring.

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35 minutes ago, Richard said:

 it will amount to the single greatest achievement in motion picture scoring.

 

I don't know if this claim can be made so unequivocal.

 

Shore's work is of a similar breadth, given the length of the pictures he composed to, and I personally like it much more.

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Shore's is probably the greatest achievement in the sheer amount of motifs, but also their connections, it has more depth.

But when done, Williams' Star Wars will be a 9-film and more than 40-year long exploration of the same core ideas (but with constant renewal) from the same composer, finished when he's 87 years old.

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In terms of hours of music, they're both compositions of an approximately similar length. Williams work does span a much larger period of time, the period of time between the two Middle Earth trilogies is shorter than between any two Star Wars trilogies. But than, Shore spent a far longer amount of his time on these projects actually composing and recording. So, there are many ways to look at it.

 

Besides the leitmotivic construction (which in the case of Shore truly makes the mind boggle) I also really appreciate the variety in terms of instrumentation - from gamelan through bagpipes to hardanger, a variety which Williams is less prone to, especially in Star Wars which is a very "orchestral" sound. And just the size of the palette and the forces with the choirs, organ, "bands" (hobbit instruments, gamelan, etc...), soloists, occasional expansions to the orchestra (added woodwinds/brass as some sections, two timpanists and so on), etc..

 

Again, I'm not trying to make a case for Shore's work over Williams. I'm just saying that - just because his spans nine films - doesn't neccesarily make it the most expansive work in the field.

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1. ESB

2. ANH (always a close second)

3. ROTJ

4. ROTS

5. TFA

6. TLJ (could move up over the years)

7. TPM

8. AOTC

 

I'm old (and slow to threads!) Decades of hearing the OT before anything else, also based on my emotional response more than content criteria, i.e. recurring material is fine. It depends; the ANH piccolo melody after the crawl was a yes, the Emperor's theme and Here They Come didn't move me as much. The Crait sequence was really powerful. I'm more of fan of when JW spins off a theme rather than repeats it (e.g. Kylo Ren's theme seeming to emerge out of that last brassy line of the Emperor's theme in ROTJ just before "And now young Skywalker... you will die.")

I'm guessing I need to hear a proper C&C of AOTC to appreciate it better.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

In terms of hours of music, they're both compositions of an approximately similar length. Williams work does span a much larger period of time, the period of time between the two Middle Earth trilogies is shorter than between any two Star Wars trilogies. But than, Shore spent a far longer amount of his time on these projects actually composing and recording. So, there are many ways to look at it.

 

Besides the leitmotivic construction (which in the case of Shore truly makes the mind boggle) I also really appreciate the variety in terms of instrumentation - from gamelan through bagpipes to hardanger, a variety which Williams is less prone to, especially in Star Wars which is a very "orchestral" sound. And just the size of the palette and the forces with the choirs, organ, "bands" (hobbit instruments, gamelan, etc...), soloists, occasional expansions to the orchestra (added woodwinds/brass as some sections, two timpanists and so on), etc..

 

Again, I'm not trying to make a case for Shore's work over Williams. I'm just saying that - just because his spans nine films - doesn't neccesarily make it the most expansive work in the field.

 

The new SW trilogy sounds stripped to the basics of an orchestra, even in the percussion segment. Where there was small percussion and mallet percussion galore in the previous trilogy, the most you get out of TFA and TLJ is the occasional tambourine and triangle.

 

Compared to the widespread colouring of Shore, TLJ sounds  pretty bare bones tbh.

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Well, it is a significantly smaller orchestra: an 85-piece compared to as many as 110-piece in the later two prequels. The choir also took a downscale from 88-piece to some 65-pieces. Actually, when the Live to Projection shows primered I was suprised to find the variety of percussion deployed in Star Wars: finger cymbals, log drums, hyoshigi, timbales, etcetra. And The Last Jedi saw the return of the taiko drum, although its a chu-daiko, not the big ones that Shore uses.

 

Shore just went wild with the instrumental palette, as he is wont to do. When the decision was made to incorperate gamelan into The Desolation of Smaug, you can just imagine him asking what instruments the Wellington Gamelan orchestra has and than replying: "give me EVERYTHING," :lol: Because its not just gamelan: there's a variety of Indian, Japanese and Chinese instruments in there, as well.

 

And there are also sections where he would call for two timpanists, an adde flute, a bass oboe, twice the brass, added piano, larger chorus, etc... Its a work of Mahlerian or Schoenbergian proportion in terms of the staged forces.

 

Williams is not as prone to go too far outside of the orchestral palette, especially in Star Wars, nor is he very keen to write for voices (he's admitted to this) so its not a fair comparison.

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85 vs. 110 people in the orchestra won’t make a huge difference in sound and even less with recorded music like this. In any case, the orchestra doesn’t dictate what JW writes, it’s the other way around I think. TFA was pretty bare-bones, but with TLJ frankly I was surprised to see the return of the taiko drums, big pounding toms in “Chrome Dome” as well as the choir. Btw, was the number of musicians ever confirmed for TFA/TLJ? 

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On 21/12/2017 at 2:20 PM, Taikomochi said:

I think every single one of the Star Wars scores is a 5-Star masterpiece, and, in almost all cases, the best scores of their respective years.

I'm sorry, doesn't this statement contradict with your vote?

 

You say every SW score is a 5 star masterpiece, meaning all are equal.

Fine by that.

But you voted that the Last Jedi is Williams' best SW score.

How can this happen? :huh:

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29 minutes ago, Remco said:

85 vs. 110 people in the orchestra won’t make a huge difference in sound and even less with recorded music like this. In any case, the orchestra doesn’t dictate what JW writes, it’s the other way around I think. TFA was pretty bare-bones, but with TLJ frankly I was surprised to see the return of the taiko drums, big pounding toms in “Chrome Dome” as well as the choir. Btw, was the number of musicians ever confirmed for TFA/TLJ? 

 

Sure, I'm not necessarily saying it makes a different in sound, but there's something to be said for the bragging rights that numbers allow for. A lot of what music in these films does is evoke the grandeur and expansiveness of the story, and its a nice tidbit to have that reflected in the size of the performing ensemble, that's all. If there is a difference in the sounds, it stems more from the change from a renowned orchestra to a freelance ensemble. 

 

As for the numbers being confirmed, the 85-piece number was given by one of the session musicians, and the footage we've seen of The Last Jedi recording sessions makes it look like its the same ensemble.

 

The chu-daiko was there onstage during The Force Awakens session, as well, and it was called for to the live performance, so it was used. Its just more prominent in this score, again no doubt taking a hint from Revenge of the Sith.

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I've seen some ridiculous things like 12 horns, 6 trumpets etc. for John Powell's scores. But scores like HTTYD, while mainly orchestral in writing, sound a bit weird to me because all of the sections are recorded separately from each other. I don't think I like that method too much.

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