Helena's Theme (for Violin and Orchestra) performed by Anne-Sophie Mutter released as a single

[Tom 4,673]

3 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

A solo instrument is playing the main theme - how can you miss it?!

 

I hear it, but it just sounds like notes of underscore versus a hard and fast theme.  If I did not hear the regular version first (which also I find hard to pin down), it would be even harder for me to pick out.  It is probably just on me and my failure to connect with it, but the theme just seems razor thin in the violin version. 

[Richard Penna 3,695]

14 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

ASM ruins it, or Williams with what he has written?

I don't think ASM does anything on her own...

 

Unless, you mean with another violinist you would like the piece more...

 

Well in that case, Williams ruined his own theme by writing all that violin stuff on top.

[filmmusic 1,843]

1 minute ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Well in that case, Williams ruined his own theme by writing all that violin stuff on top.

I'm also not a fan of too many embellishments by any solo instrument on a musical piece. That's why I don't like concerti very much. And especially cadenzas.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

I like some uses of violin, such as there's a track from Far and Away that has a very quick violin - might have been a non-OST concert piece of some sort - but it was completely focused on the melody and the orchestra undernearth was supporting it.

 

Ah, it's from the 1969-1999 hits album - this is really nice:

 

 

 

But this one sort of feels like Williams indulging ASM with a palette with which to show off her playing, rather than thinking about what was truly needed to showcase his theme.

[Faleel 5,360]

That's exactly what it is.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

You guys are crazy, it sounds absolutely lovely!

 

 

[Faleel 5,360]

If you find vibrato lovely.

[Jay 37,374]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

I like some uses of violin, such as there's a track from Far and Away that has a very quick violin - might have been a non-OST concert piece of some sort - but it was completely focused on the melody and the orchestra undernearth was supporting it.

 

Ah, it's from the 1969-1999 hits album - this is really nice:

 

That isn't originally FROM That album - it just re-appeared there, after initially appearing on the 1997 Sony Boston Pops album "Cinema Serenade":

 

 

 

It's a nice album, but that Far and Away track is indeed a major highlight - it's great!

[1977 1,743]

Serious question. Why are so many of the performers in that video wearing face masks?

[artguy360 1,844]

ASM always plays with heavy vibrato. It can be a bit too much at times.

[Archive Collection 214]

10 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Serious question. Why are so many of the performers in that video wearing face masks?

Same reason why, generally, some people are still wearing masks in public: They might be concerned about losing work (if they catch COVID), especially as session musicians who don’t always have a predictable and stable income. Some are older, have a weaker immune system or have other underlying conditions and want to take an extra precaution for themselves. I don’t see any issue with it, it’s a personal choice for them to make.

[Tom 4,673]

Perhaps they do not want to catch vibrato.  

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

4 hours ago, Tom said:

I hear it, but it just sounds like notes of underscore versus a hard and fast theme.  If I did not hear the regular version first (which also I find hard to pin down), it would be even harder for me to pick out.  It is probably just on me and my failure to connect with it, but the theme just seems razor thin in the violin version. 

 

I mean ... what you are saying here is... you don't fancy this theme. Or don't find it particularly compelling or memorable.

 

I don't blame you! It's fine.

[Tom 4,673]

I know I am one step away from saying the theme is not whistle-able, but my mind hears barely connected successive notes rather than a clear theme around which the piece revolves.  This rarely happens to me with Williams's works--I find the themes even in his concertos clear and obvious.  With this one, I don't.  I do more with the regular concert version, though even then I find it more abstract (though very compelling) versus, say Marion's theme.  The violin version is less compelling and less melodically defined to my ears.  

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

51 minutes ago, Tom said:

I know I am one step away from saying the theme is not whistle-able, but my mind hears barely connected successive notes rather than a clear theme around which the piece revolves.  This rarely happens to me with Williams's works--I find the themes even in his concertos clear and obvious.  With this one, I don't.  I do more with the regular concert version, though even then I find it more abstract (though very compelling) versus, say Marion's theme.  The violin version is less compelling and less melodically defined to my ears.  

 

It is a slightly vague theme. I guess maybe part of the reason why in the score proper it didn't grab me as much. 

[TolkienSS 407]

It's very ... fleeting.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

1 minute ago, TolkienSS said:

It's very ... fleeting.

 

Just like his affair with Daisy Ridley.

[p0llux 400]

Absolutely love this rendition of Helena's theme. Another flawless ASM performance. Pure golden age sound. It's become one of my fave Indy themes, if not my top fave theme.

 

I still prefer the concert version because of how it spoon feeds you the theme in a very accessible way. However, in no way does this diminish the artistic brilliance of the ASM version.

 

 

@Jay And don't forget about the sequel to that album and my favorite of the two: 

 

[Jay 37,374]

I couldn't get into that album at all

[p0llux 400]

That's a bummer. I really respect and enjoy the golden age era of film music. The roots of John Williams sound. I can't get enough of Max Steiner, Erich Wolfgang Korngold, Miklos Rozsa, Franz Waxman, Bernard Hermann, etc. Williams isn't Williams without these guys and this ASM version fits right into that album. 

[Holko 9,532]

I couldn't get into either of the Serenades.

 

I haven't listened too much to either of the Helena concert pieces but I definitely don't "get" her theme yet, can't grasp the shape, beginning, end, what phrases and how many etc.

But I liked and recognised the action rendition in the featurette so I guess the shorter more focused film renditions will help me put it together.

[King Mark 3,631]

well I can sort of hum the orchestral version

[crocodile 8,020]

I think KM simply doesn't find the sound of solo violin pleasing. Simple as that.

 

Karol

[Jilal 569]

Melodically speaking, the theme does appear to be a bit simpler (dare I say weaker?) than its siblings in Williams's repertoire, but I still think it's very enjoyable and even a bit moving, especially in this particular arrangement and performance. I like the almost ethereal ending in particular.

 

Breathtaking? No. Charming? YES.

[1977 1,743]

12 hours ago, Archive Collection said:

Same reason why, generally, some people are still wearing masks in public: They might be concerned about losing work (if they catch COVID), especially as session musicians who don’t always have a predictable and stable income. Some are older, have a weaker immune system or have other underlying conditions and want to take an extra precaution for themselves. I don’t see any issue with it, it’s a personal choice for them to make.

 

I just found it strange, as no one here has worn masks for over a year. We have no more COVID cases.

[pete 907]

Deleted... question asked and answered... carry on!

[Garrett 153]

9 hours ago, Tom said:

I know I am one step away from saying the theme is not whistle-able, but my mind hears barely connected successive notes rather than a clear theme around which the piece revolves.  This rarely happens to me with Williams's works--I find the themes even in his concertos clear and obvious.  With this one, I don't.  I do more with the regular concert version, though even then I find it more abstract (though very compelling) versus, say Marion's theme.  The violin version is less compelling and less melodically defined to my ears.  

Williams’ themes in recent years have trended towards becoming more and more abstract. Helena’s theme continues this trend, and is in my opinion one of the most abstract themes he’s ever written.

 

Also, this new violin solo doesn’t help, because it’s an abstraction of something that was already abstract in the first place.

 

Whenever I’m listening to a new JW piece these days, the first thing I do is go to the piano and figure out how to play the melody. This really helps me to “get” a piece. Once I figure out how to play a piece, or even just a small part of it, it suddenly “clicks” for me. I used this method to make Helena’s Theme “click,” and now I really enjoy it.

[Damien F 1,742]

Everytime I try to hum Helena's theme, I end up accidentally humming Irina's theme instead. I'll probably get more used to it when the OST is released.

[1977 1,743]

18 minutes ago, Garrett said:

Williams’ themes in recent years have trended towards becoming more and more abstract.

 

I found this with his revised Han Solo and the Princess arrangement too. I find it very meandery and vastly prefer the old version.

[Loert 2,515]

This is absolutely beautiful. Sounds like something straight out of the Golden Age. I love it!

[Lao Che 86]

Love it that this wonderful theme is somewhat a variation on his Hollywood Golden Age main theme for Sabrina (very logical decision IMO😁) - Williams uses the same melodic sequence and harmonic development;) Its even more so in the Perlman Solo violin and orquestra version (Album:Cinema Serenade already mentioned here)

Borrowing from his own work and giving it a more intense almost dramatic feeling. I for sure love this beautiful, complex and memorable theme!

[artguy360 1,844]

This version of Helena's theme obscures the main motif compared to the previous concert arrangement. It also has a more vacuous form.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

The theme itself is fine, nothing very special taken in the company of all of JW's themes. I can get the initial 5 note (or so, let's not get into that again) bit in my head, but nothing more than that. It's nowhere near Marion's theme.

 

But I think a lot of the central bits are being lost when the violin gets busier and that's why I think JW made an error by essentially making this a soundtrack-based showcase of ASM instead of truly thinking about how it was appropriate to use her talents within the score.

[Faleel 5,360]

That assumes it's on the OST and not a standalone release, just recorded at the sessions for convenience/fun/etc. doesn’t it?

[Richard Penna 3,695]

I'm astonished that we still don't have a tracklist for the album.

 

I know it's Indy, but even so the levels of pretentiousness are off the scale. There is nothing about this score or its track listing that is so special that a tracklist and some samples would cause perpetual anguish.

[Faleel 5,360]

11 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I'm astonished that we still don't have a tracklist for the album.

 

I know it's Indy, but even so the levels of pretentiousness are off the scale. There is nothing about this score or its track listing that is so special that a tracklist and some samples would cause perpetual anguish.

Track 1: Indy Kills Important Character's Famous Dad

Track 2: Important Legacy Character Is Dead

Track 3: Plot Spoiler

Track 4: Indy Replacement Announcement

Et al.

 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

17 hours ago, Tom said:

I know I am one step away from saying the theme is not whistle-able, but my mind hears barely connected successive notes rather than a clear theme around which the piece revolves.  This rarely happens to me with Williams's works--I find the themes even in his concertos clear and obvious.  With this one, I don't.  I do more with the regular concert version, though even then I find it more abstract (though very compelling) versus, say Marion's theme.  The violin version is less compelling and less melodically defined to my ears.  

 

I think what will really help is getting to hear Williams do action renditions of it in the film. Hearing it in punchier statements with a little less fluff and little more directness is what really helped me click with Rey's theme, which in retrospect I have no idea how I had such a hard time with at the start.

 

Also...

 

 

[Garrett 153]

The Anne Sophie mutter version is not particularly hummable, but Helena’s theme proper is extremely hummable. If you’re having trouble hearing it in your head, I highly recommend you listen to this:

 

 

It’s a map cue that combines Indy’s theme with Helena’s theme. It will fix any problems you have with Helena’s theme.

[Jilal 569]

5 minutes ago, Garrett said:

It will fix any problems you have with Helena’s theme.

 

Is there a money-back guarantee?

[mrbellamy 6,293]

2 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

I think what will really help is getting to hear Williams do action renditions of it in the film. Hearing it in punchier statements with a little less fluff and little more directness is what really helped me click with Rey's theme, which in retrospect I have no idea how I had such a hard time with at the start.

 

The main thing I remember kinda throwing me off on the first listen with Rey's Theme was how many different parts it had to it, and how the main theme itself never repeated the same way. So it felt a bit rambling, but then it was thrilling to realize how all the individual parts work together, and the structure of the concert piece has a clear development to it. 

[Tom 4,673]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

 

The main thing I remember kinda throwing me off on the first listen with Rey's Theme was how many different parts it had to it, and how the main theme itself never repeated the same way. So it felt a bit rambling, but then it was thrilling to realize how all the individual parts work together, and the structure of the concert piece has a clear development to it. 

Plus, the concert piece goes through like eight key changes, which is very cool.  I wish it were a couple minutes longer, but it is as good as a piece that short can be. 

[p0llux 400]

I'm bewildered at the amount of people struggling with Helena's Theme. I will admit it's a little longer than the average JW theme and it's lack of dotted rhythms make it slightly harder to latch on to. However, it's very accessible if you break it down into parts and commit it to memory. I've clipped the relevant parts from the concert version below. Hope that helps.

 

A part(Horns): https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxLH9oOCwrDgF-OnPQyMESsxY8qzi1p4fi

B part(Strings): https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxpyVa7HkqKrS0QShUkEPKHaw7v8fWLzDf

[Tydirium 1,167]

15 minutes ago, p0llux said:

I'm bewildered at the amount of people struggling with Helena's Theme. I will admit it's a little longer than the average JW theme and it's lack of dotted rhythms make it slightly harder to latch on to. However, it's very accessible if you break it down into parts and commit it to memory. I've clipped the relevant parts from the concert version below. Hope that helps.

 

A part(Horns): https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxLH9oOCwrDgF-OnPQyMESsxY8qzi1p4fi

B part(Strings): https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxpyVa7HkqKrS0QShUkEPKHaw7v8fWLzDf

 

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve seen some YT comments that have similarly expressed a difficult time grasping it (some even to the point of saying there is no theme!), but I was honestly a bit surprised to see people here of all places having the same issue. Especially considering the fact that the theme has been out for 9 months! I for one memorized the main tune (and notated it, and was playing it for fun in my spare time!) within a day of the Hollywood Bowl video first being posted, and I regularly find myself humming it/thinking it… so I just have a hard time understanding this difficulty that some are apparently having with it.

 

EDIT: Also, thanks for posting those clips! Should make it very easy for those who are having a tough time. I’ll just add that, for those interested, the first big statement of the theme can be heard in the strings at 0:46 in the video.

[Faleel 5,360]

Some of us have been avoiding listening to it until the full album comes out.

[Tydirium 1,167]

Avoiding the theme for 9 months?

[Faleel 5,360]

1 minute ago, Tydirium said:

Avoiding the theme for 9 months?

Yup.

 

My one listen to the ASM version is my first since my one listen to the Bowl performance that was posted

[Quppa 117]

Brett Mitchell has a piano cover up:

 

Reminds me of the Rise of Skywalker concert arrangement when it's played on piano for some reason.

On 24/06/2023 at 6:45 AM, JTWfan77 said:

Serious question. Why are so many of the performers in that video wearing face masks?

 

Hollywood (as an industry) and Los Angeles (as a county) were among the most cautious in the world in easing restrictions. The 'Return to Work' agreement only expired in May, and this recording was done in February.

[filmmusic 1,843]

21 minutes ago, Quppa said:

Brett Mitchell has a piano cover up:

How on earth does he find those complex chords?

It's difficult by ear..

[Richard Penna 3,695]

On 25/06/2023 at 6:06 AM, p0llux said:

I'm bewildered at the amount of people struggling with Helena's Theme. I will admit it's a little longer than the average JW theme and it's lack of dotted rhythms make it slightly harder to latch on to. However, it's very accessible if you break it down into parts and commit it to memory. I've clipped the relevant parts from the concert version below. Hope that helps.

 

I'm afraid even that doesn't help - it's not forming that earworm that all of the big, classic JW themes manage to do for me. Even the Fabelmans theme did that after a handful of listens.

 

The piano cover above comes across to me as a pleasant jazz pianist instead of a concise piano rendition of a theme.

 

The closest I come to 'getting it' is this map mockup, but all I really latch onto is the intial basic ascending figure.

 

[King Mark 3,631]

On 24/06/2023 at 3:43 AM, crocodile said:

I think KM simply doesn't find the sound of solo violin pleasing. Simple as that.

 

Karol

 Not exactly. I like it , but  if he wrote it for a horn solo instead I'd be all over it. I feel violin can get "distracting"

 

In other words,I wish he picked another solo instrument to do all these arrangements of late.Even cello would have been awesome