Examples of movies saved by the score?

[Bayesian 1,363]

I’ve read before (likely in one of these threads or via links in one of these threads) of composers sometimes being seen by producers as the last best hope to rescue a bad film. However, I’m not sure I can come up with any strong examples of that. Does anyone have a good example, or know of an archetypal example?

 

There are lots of movies, of course, where the score does a lot of heavy lifting in terms of selling the emotions of different scenes or moving the story along, but actually making a bad movie watchable by virtue of of the score alone— I’d love to know which movies count in this category.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Hmm... I don't think that's really a thing. The only example that comes to mind is some Sergio Leone films where his reveling in the footage is such that, if you didn't have music - and not just any music there but great music - it just wouldn't work.

 

A cheeky man would cite Syberberg's Parsifal. 

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

A great score can of course add a lot, but I think it's beyond its powers to "save" an otherwise weak film. If anything, a quality score would only shine a light on how bad the rest is.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Star Wars

[Trope 527]

42 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

Star Wars

The Star Wars prequel trilogy. JW's score is the only reason I watch those films at all.

[TolkienSS 407]

Any Superman movie after Superman The Movie.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

27 minutes ago, Trope said:

The Star Wars prequel trilogy. JW's score is the only reason I watch those films at all.

 

Of all the Star Wars movies, Attack of the Clones would take the biggest hit if you replaced Williams with a generic wallpaper score. Anakin/Padme's romance without "Across the Stars," just slow string chords....oh god. 

[Edmilson 7,466]

Examples of bad movies saved by a good score? Well, 80% of Jerry Goldsmith's filmography 

[Faleel 5,356]

3 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Examples of bad movies saved by a good score? Well, 80% of Jerry Goldsmith's filmography 

How many were actually saved though?

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

2 hours ago, Trope said:

The Star Wars prequel trilogy. JW's score is the only reason I watch those films at all.

 

True, but the original Star Wars owes an enormous deal to the score.

[enderdrag64 624]

Best example I can think of is Dragonheart. It's not a well regarded movie by any means but most people who do remember it positively remember it for it's beautiful score

[DangerMotif 1,038]

 

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

'98 Lost In Space
 

Nostalgia Critic said it best: "[Hurt]'s so dull that the music has to do the acting for him."  (Hopkins must've had a thought like this, too; the moment in question had to be rewritten twice)

[A24 4,339]

1 hour ago, DangerMotif said:

 

 

Funniest thing I've seen all week! And it could prove that you can kill any movie if one element is wrong, although I do think that the silence worked in the beginning when they start walking, even providing the moment with some kind of tension.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

4 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

Any Superman movie after Superman The Movie.

 

Including that.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

2 hours ago, enderdrag64 said:

Best example I can think of is Dragonheart. It's not a well regarded movie by any means but most people who do remember it positively remember it for it's beautiful score

I like that movie….

 

we need a complete score!

 

 

it is a difficult question… because the composer would almost always be hired before any filming was made so how would they know before that that the film is going to be bad?.

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

No movie owes more of its success to the score than Star Wars.

 

The score doesn’t “save” the movie, and it’s not the only reason it’s successful. But without that score, it’s nowhere near the success it was (if at all).

[Thor 7,512]

As others have said - a great score can only ameliorate, not save. That being said, a BAD score can completely ruin the experience for me. Like ROGUE ONE. Really a pretty good film, but my annoyance with MG's music seeps through the whole thing and colours it in an uncomfortable light. Or Görannsson for various things.

 

There are always a couple of things going on in threads like these. One is the love of the music itself, as it appears on album. The other is its presumed excellence in the film itself, that makes one - perhaps - overlook certain flaws. As others have said, Goldsmith was a master at this. Many other examples too.

[Brónach 1,302]

7 hours ago, Trope said:

The Star Wars prequel trilogy. JW's score is the only reason I watch those films at all.

 

they're not saved in the slightlest, these movies merely make for fun albums

[GerateWohl 4,370]

8 hours ago, Trope said:

The Star Wars prequel trilogy. JW's score is the only reason I watch those films at all.

Same statement for me concerning the sequels. Even though these were not savedby the score. Nothing could save TROS.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I'd rewatch RotS on its own terms but not AotC. What I've seen of the film (clips, here and there) was just so dull and I'm afraid musically it's kind of the same for me as the story part of KotCS - the inspiration in the music just isn't there for me and I'd push back against the idea that he somehow saved it.

 

But at least something about Sith got his musical gears going again, as I want that score expanded as much as everyone.

 

On a more general note I'm skeptical that a score can save a movie in terms of making it otherwise unwatchable, but it can certainly elevate a film that, if it had a 'generic' score, would have had far less impact. I'm not talking about cases like E.T./Indy/Jurassic or the SW OT because those films aren't deficient - JW's score just turned 'excellent' scenes into iconic ones. I think for this topic you have to find scenes that were changed from just 'there' to 'excellent' purely from the music.

 

Although I do agree that the opposite is true - a movie can be ruined by an unsuitable score, i.e. not just a generic background one, but one that actively pushes at the viewer and is just wrong for the film.

[Trope 527]

46 minutes ago, Brónach said:

 

they're not saved in the slightlest, these movies merely make for fun albums

I mean saved in the sense that I watch the films at all. In other words, the music is so good that I’m willing to endure the otherwise less than positive viewing experience (but only once every few years).

[Giftheck 916]

Agree on that point, Trope. You can't make a bad movie good with just its score, but it's 'saved' in that it at least can become a watchable experience.

 

As for me, I nominate Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom. Awful film, damn good score IMO that makes it watchable at least. Giacchino would do great in a big monster/kaiju flick, I think.

[Edmilson 7,466]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

Like ROGUE ONE. Really a pretty good film, but my annoyance with MG's music seeps through the whole thing and colours it in an uncomfortable light.

Rogue One is one of Gia's weakest efforts. Sure, he had only two weeks to write it, but the results were far from outstanding. 

[Giftheck 916]

I'd like to think he was just burnt out by 2016 in general. He put his all into Star Trek Beyond that year, and his other scores suffered for it.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Indeed. Zootopia was meh and Doctor Strange was very mediocre. I wish that movie was scored by Chris Young... 

[Tallguy 3,398]

It's funny to say Star Wars but it also happens to be true. I don't think (for example) that Superman needed one of the greatest scores of all time. It just got one. I can picture Superman with a far more OK score.

 

Star Wars needed Star Wars. As you move down the scale from "GOAT" to "Really Good" to "Passable" at what point does Star Wars stop being even an OK movie? Obviously the score is not the single factor to "makes it a great movie". But it's a really really big one.

 

AND I FREAKING LOVE ROGUE ONE.

[Bespin 8,483]

Jaws

Psycho

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[JTN 2,030]

- The Last Starfighter

- Tron: Legacy

- Conan the Barbarian

- Back to the Future

- Rocky

- Raiders of the Lost Ark

- Blade Runner

- The Lord of the Rings

- Batman 

- Batman Returns

- Batman Forever

- Stargate

- Hook 

 

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

Jaws

Psycho

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Archetypal examples of scores making already great films into classics, and memorable even to casual moviegoers who don't usually pay attention to the music as we do.

 

4 minutes ago, JTW said:

- Conan the Barbarian

Yeah, the music adds a lot of quality to what (I feel) is a mediocre film.

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

- Rocky

Rocky IV... that portion of it at the beginning of V, it's a great example of a score that could have saved a movie

[TolkienSS 407]

Diamonds Are Forever comes to mind.

I want to say A View To A Kill, too, but that one is so bad that it even kills John Barry and Duran Duran.

[Chen G. 3,949]

5 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Star Wars needed Star Wars. As you move down the scale from "GOAT" to "Really Good" to "Passable" at what point does Star Wars stop being even an OK movie?

 

I'm not the biggest fan of that movie, but I think it would have turned out more than okay with a lesser score, too. Lucas originally wanted to use some of the same music as the Flash Gordon serials did (in other words, lots of Liszt) and I think it would still work.

 

The success of that film is the story, and the special effects used in realising that story. The score adds a very important dimension, but it isn't a good film BECAUSE of the score.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

I'm not the biggest fan of that movie, but I think it would have turned out more than okay with a lesser score, too. Lucas originally wanted to use some of the same music as the Flash Gordon serials did (in other words, lots of Liszt) and I think it would still work.

 

The success of that film is the story, and the special effects used in realising that story. The score adds a very important dimension, but it isn't a good film BECAUSE of the score.

 

The original Star Wars is a very clumsy and awkard film. The score (and the editing) makes it work, somehow. 

 

I think with a different score (even with the original idea of the classical temp-track Lucas had in mind) it wouldn't have worked.

 

With Empire Strikes Back, it's a different story. That could work with a different score.

[Chen G. 3,949]

3 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

The original Star Wars is a very clumsy and awkard film.

 

That's certainly what I would say.

 

But its still quite a good film. It tells an interesting story and, in terms of how its plotted, rendered and cut together, tells it pretty well.

 

It wouldn't be nearly as succesfull without the grand guignol air provided by the score, but it would still be a film more succesfull than not.

 

Heck, for a film supposedly so reliant on its score to succeed, it has a remarkably sparse score: its not scored wall-to-wall like the later entries: there are large stretches of film without any music at all.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

5 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

The original Star Wars is a very clumsy and awkard film. The score (and the editing) makes it work, somehow. 

 

Clumsy and awkward? 

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

28 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

That's certainly what I would say.

 

But its still quite a good film. It tells an interesting story and, in terms of how its plotted, rendered and cut together, tells it pretty well.

 

It wouldn't be nearly as succesfull without the grand guignol air provided by the score, but it would still be a film more succesfull than not.

 

Heck, for a film supposedly so reliant on its score to succeed, it has a remarkably sparse score: its not scored wall-to-wall like the later entries: there are large stretches of film without any music at all.

 

Hmmmm I don't agree 100%, but you could be right. My bias with Star Wars is not a very positive one so my judgement could be tainted by my own perception.

 

27 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Clumsy and awkward? 

 

Very. Most of the time, at least in my eyes, the actors don't have any idea what the hell is going on and it shows. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 minute ago, Muad'Dib said:

Very. Most of the time, at least in my eyes, the actors don't have any idea what the hell is going on and it shows. 

 

Just like in the real world.

[Chen G. 3,949]

31 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Clumsy and awkward? 

 

Often, yes.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

That's just good acting.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Eh. It varies.

 

And the mise-en-scene is often - not always - very workman-like.

[Bellosh 3,419]

Hmm interesting question... because Jaws for instance....is that movie considered 'bad' with a different score even though it's cut and acted the same? I'm not sure...JW's sure as hell elevates it to its ultimate potential.

 

I will say Lady in the Water.  I don't think there's an equivalent to such a bad movie with such a gorgeous score.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Home Alone is significantly elevated by the score.  Even if it's still technically a good movie without it

[Andy 4,138]

Saved… is difficult to say.  I think for me the examples that come to mind are horror, like Jaws or John Carpenter’s Halloween.   I don’t know if they saved it, but the scores are so integral I can’t imagine either film working as well without it. 

[rough cut 1,714]

Bladerunner comes to mind… “Saved” might be a stretch but I doubt it would be as iconic without Vangelis’ score.

[A24 4,339]

8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Often, yes.

 

You really need to provide such statements with examples so that we can understand you better.

 

5 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Bladerunner comes to mind… “Saved” might be a stretch but I doubt it would be as iconic without Vangelis’ score.

 

If you consider the movie so weak that it needs the score, I want to know why. Perhaps it's the same reason why the audience in 1982 thought the score wasn't able to save the movie either.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

For me the biggest argument against Star Wars movies being saved by their scores is The Mandalorian. When I watched season one and two it didn't work for me at all because of the music. But everyone else seemed to be excited about the new random unglamourous sound, that didn't have any of the magic and sophistication of the Star Wars music by Williams. But I thought, if for most people Star Wars works with that kind of music, then it obviously doesn't depend on the music at all.

[rough cut 1,714]

 

42 minutes ago, A24 said:

If you consider the movie so weak that it needs the score, I want to know why.

I don’t think it’s weak at all. I love Bladerunner.

 

But it’s also a movie that is quite hard to sit through for the “general” public - no matter which cut is on the screen. It’s slow and it’s dark and it’s weird. It doesn’t over explain anything except the most basic plot elements and character motivations. It’s a movie that showcases world building at its best: a whole other world in the viewer’s peripheral, implied by casual remarks by its inhabitants and by implicit stage design.

 

It’s not “fast food cinema”.

 

A movie is the sum of all its parts. I don’t think the soundtrack saved Bladerunner, but maybe it did save it from obscurity.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

With a lesser composer scoring it, HOME ALONE would have been a ho-hum piece of entertainment.

JW elevates it to the status of modern classic.

[JTN 2,030]

4 hours ago, A24 said:

 

 

 

If you consider the movie so weak that it needs the score, I want to know why. Perhaps it's the same reason why the audience in 1982 thought the score wasn't able to save the movie either.

Maybe the target audience didn’t go see it in theaters. But later they watched it on TV and VHS.