Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!

[TolkienSS 407]

I don't get a sense of closure from this album at all. 

It starts impossibly strong, gathers a whole lot of steam, then has a few storytelling tracks, tries to find a climax that never comes - then a few random cues, and Raiders March out of literally nowhere.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Somehow, I feel like the action tracks from the climax (The Airport, Battle of Syracuse, Centuries Join Hands) haven't "clicked" for me yet, as they sound like your usual JW action/suspense scoring... But I feel I'll like them a lot more once I hear them a few more times and see the movie.

[Darth Mulder 154]

There is no Williams "classic" End Credits on score. Something is rotten in the state of Disney. 

[Damien F 1,742]

8 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Somehow, I feel like the action tracks from the climax (The Airport, Battle of Syracuse, Centuries Join Hands) haven't "clicked" for me yet, as they sound like your usual JW action/suspense scoring... But I feel I'll like them a lot more once I hear them a few more times and see the movie.

 

I quite liked them before seeing the movie but seeing the movie really made me appreciate them more.

[King Mark 3,631]

End Credits is Raiders march(track17)-Helena's theme (track2)-Prologue(Track 1, 1.08 onwards)

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

12 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Somehow, I feel like the action tracks from the climax (The Airport, Battle of Syracuse, Centuries Join Hands) haven't "clicked" for me yet, as they sound like your usual JW action/suspense scoring... But I feel I'll like them a lot more once I hear them a few more times and see the movie.

 

I can see a lot of composers going - ain't nobody sitting through the end credits - what's the point of me writing 8 mins of new music. Better leave the editor to track in something.

[Bellosh 3,419]

3 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

I can see a lot of composers going - ain't nobody sitting through the end credits - what's the point of me writing 8 mins of new music. Better leave the editor to track in something.

 

Unless it's a marvel movie of course 

[Darth Mulder 154]

7 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

I can see a lot of composers going - ain't nobody sitting through the end credits - what's the point of me writing 8 mins of new music. Better leave the editor to track in something.

 

4 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

Unless it's a marvel movie of course 

 

 I remember how some people degenerated by Marvel sitting through the end credits at the screening of Star Wars: The Force Awakens. The Bad Robot Productions logo appeared on the screen and they thought it was a after credits scene.    

 

 

[TolkienSS 407]

10 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

I can see a lot of composers going - ain't nobody sitting through the end credits - what's the point of me writing 8 mins of new music. Better leave the editor to track in something.

 

The point of an end credits suite isn't to write new music, but to showcase highlights from the movie. Williams usually excels at this, but wasn't bothered this time?

I find it hugely dissapointing because when I'm in the mood to get a John Williams fix from a particular movie, the credits are a go to.

[Coco314 16]

46 minutes ago, Archive Collection said:

I have to disagree! The film certainly maintains the tone of the previous films: there are “dark” moments  throughout - much like any other Indy film. But it's nowhere near the aesthetic of any Nolan films, or Logan (also directed by Mangold). My impression is that they committed to honouring the tone and aesthetic of the original three films.

Quite agree with this. This is very much in the spirit of the previous movies (and frankly, it's hard to make more "dark and disturbing" than Temple of Doom, isn't it?). Even as far the the photography goes, this was much closer to Douglas Slocombe than the hideous Kaminski stuff from KOTC (don't get me wrong, Kaminsky was great for a tons of Spielberg movies, but just wasn't a good fit for Indy Imho)

[oierem 152]

Just saw the movie, without having listened to the album yet.

The score has certainly ups and downs. 

The best part is how Helena's theme is used: it's used a lot, and in very different ways. It's clearly the main theme of the movie.

The worst part is the music for the whole prologue. I'm sorry, but it was distracting as hell because every single second of it was reused music from an earlier movie! Every fragment. And each comes from a different cue, pasted together. For me, it sounds very similar to the tracked music for the Battle of Geonosis.

(I know that this sounds like a sacrilege, but honestly.... I don't think there's such a difference between tracked music and literally reused music in this case....).

Thankfully, all the other action cues are much better, even though many of them are CLEARLY based on a previous cue (which again, is distracting).

 

 

[Jay 37,369]

Everyone please use this thread to discuss the album and the "score in the film" thread to discuss music you heard in the film (that isn't in the album). Thanks. 

[MrJosh 892]

Overall, I very much enjoyed the OST. I really like Helena's Theme's usage within the tracks on the OST and my favorite action music is in Tuk Tuk in Tangiers. I'm happy to hear some intricate and engaging writing happening. Even in the track that sounds like Tintin, it's still fun and exciting. I didn't mind that as much as I thought I was going to. Not sure why it stood out so much to me on first listen, but the celeste is very noticeable to me and I don't really associate that instrument with Indiana Jones scores, though I'm sure it's showed up here and there, just seemed more noticeable in this score. 

 

I enjoyed the whole thing, but Tuk Tuk really had me going 'yeah yeah yeah!' I'm excited to listen through again. 

[artguy360 1,843]

The end credits being chopped up and moved around does not help the album flow or have a sense of conclusion at all.

[lairdo 726]

Just finished my third start to finish listen.

 

Listening experiences:

1. Last night sitting at my desk with my nice desktop speakers. 

2. This morning while running via the Atmos version in Apple Music but on AirPods Pro 2, so not sure how much Atmos I was really getting. Noise cancelling.

3. Was at my work desk listening on Sony headphones (wired, non-noise cancelling) - but I was working so it was not a real active listening

 

I am finding the album a pleasurable listen in all of these situations. I really, really like the new action pieces. Airport was a standout in the theater to me and it does not disappoint on the album. In fact it is probably better than in the film (and it was well mixed for the film but still lots of sound effects). The travel pieces are really lovely. And as I did during the movie, I really like Helena's theme in all its uses (some of which are not on the album). I think JW got inspired by the character and while it fits in the movie where used, its large representation on the album reflects JW's personal taste. (There might be some amount of thinking towards the Oscars where a lot of Raiders March will seem old and the Helena's theme will seem new. That would be more of a Disney thing than a JW thing.)

 

A good test for my enjoyment was how much I focused on the music when running, and I found that until I got to the reprise of the Helena's theme with violin that I was attentive throughout. (I have not built the playlist order of my choosing yet, so this was all OST.)

 

Alas, my run today was 1:15 so I had to start over the album to fill the last 8 mins! 

 

I also listened on and off throughout the morning including briefly driving to work and also on my Sonos Arc 5.1 system via AppleTV. That all sounded great. I look forward to more dedicated listening like this.

 

Overall, as an album, I am very pleased. 

 

I do agree that I want a more rousing album conclusion, and that will be filled with a rip of the end credits off the home video release (if not done sooner in some other way). (Although as pointed out, the end credits don't really end up in that manner - so again I may be back to the Berlin recording of the Raiders March.)

 

 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

I don't get a sense of closure from this album at all. 

It starts impossibly strong, gathers a whole lot of steam, then has a few storytelling tracks, tries to find a climax that never comes - then a few random cues, and Raiders March out of literally nowhere.

True.

The first half definitely pulls me more than the second.

There are some cool action tracks before the finale, but the emotion at the end cannot really be felt in the music.

 

47 minutes ago, Darth Mulder said:

There is no Williams "classic" End Credits on score. Something is rotten in the state of Disney. 

Whine whine.

[Damien F 1,742]

5 minutes ago, lairdo said:

I think JW got inspired by the character and while it fits in the movie where used, its large representation on the album reflects JW's personal taste.

 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

I can see a lot of composers going - ain't nobody sitting through the end credits - what's the point of me writing 8 mins of new music. Better leave the editor to track in something.

*I* sat through the whole credits...

Probably to the embarrassment of the friend who was with me...

 

45 minutes ago, oierem said:

The worst part is the music for the whole prologue. I'm sorry, but it was distracting as hell because every single second of it was reused music from an earlier movie! Every fragment. And each comes from a different cue, pasted together. For me, it sounds very similar to the tracked music for the Battle of Geonosis.

Pretty sure I heard original music too.

[Holko 9,528]

I actually really liked this album on first listen, after the movie. It definitely has a feel, a kind of melancholy but calm tone, perfectly fitting JW at the twilight of his career. I finally grasped Helena, but not many of the other themes yet. I actually dislike the credits Raiders not because I dislike the performance or recording at all, but because I feel it doesn't really fit into this tone at all, it just disrupts it out of obligation.

 

Who knows how this will change on later listens and after seeing the movie again at home sometime, but for now I'm happy!

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Tuk Tuk!!

[Taikomochi 1,136]

The best suggestion I can make is to immediately swap the two Helena’s themes. The violin one has no closure to it, so it works better as an overture or sorts.

[Bellosh 3,419]

I'm finally at the point where I know which track is playing without looking at my computer or phone 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

4 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

I'm finally at the point where I know which track is playing without looking at my computer or phone 

That was fast!

I'm looking forward to getting to that point too in the next few days.

(Weeks? Months?)

[Bellosh 3,419]

2 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

That was fast!

I'm looking forward to getting to that point too in the next few days.

(Weeks? Months?)

 

You know how long I've been looking for this score?

 

All my life.

[lairdo 726]

2 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

You know how long I've been looking for this score?

 

All my life.

 

But does it belong in a museum?

[Bellosh 3,419]

1 minute ago, lairdo said:

 

But does it belong in a museum?

 

To Athens does that's for sure 😀

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

1 hour ago, Damien F said:

 

How to prevent John Williams from retiring: Pair up Harrison Ford with an attractive, young, brunette British woman who is capable and also kinda funny.

He and George got similar tastes.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

50 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

You know how long I've been looking for this score?

Rumour has it you're the #1 Indy fan on this board.

Pleased to make yer acquitance! (Again.)

I'd be quite happy to be considered #2.

Indiana Jones is for sure my favourite series, period.

[Bellosh 3,419]

i'm not. i promise. i don't know who said that.

 

BIGGEST RAIDERS MARCH FAN??, now that's possible

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

43 minutes ago, Courtney said:

How to prevent John Williams from retiring: Pair up Harrison Ford with an attractive, young, brunette British woman who is capable and also kinda funny.

He and George got similar tastes.

 

 

[handz 39]

I must say I am quite pleased with the music but not super excited overall. 

 

there are some really nice tracks and moments - way better than most of JWs recent music, but he still seems to be holding back a bit. 

what I don’t like most is: 

1) no raiders march, not even much of it in the score

 

2) only one new theme (at least officially)

 

Helenas theme is beautiful but it is not enough for me. I was also listening to KotCS today - and wow, Irinas theme, Call of the Krystal… I am sorry but it was way better Score than Dial of Destiny in every aspect, way more “classic” Williams. Dial is pretty but it is too reserved and lacks the balls and new thematic material. 

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

17 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

 

 

LOL where is that from?

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

10 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

 

Bro will forever be a jazz man at heart.

[p0llux 398]

14 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

 

LOL where is that from?

 

KOTCS featurette, I believe. He was originally referring to Irina.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

35 minutes ago, handz said:

only one new theme (at least officially)

There are a few more.

But they're quite understated.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

3:19-3:35 in “The Airport” 😍 

[TolkienSS 407]

59 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

There are a few more.

But they're quite understated.

 

It's driving me up the wall that there is at least one theme for Archimedes and one for the Dial, but both don't even have an end credit appearance, much less a short suite. I think the Dial even has two themes.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

39 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

 

It's driving me up the wall that there is at least one theme for Archimedes and one for the Dial, but both don't even have an end credit appearance, much less a short suite. I think the Dial even has two themes.

THAT many??

I think were going to need timestamps for all the themes in this movie.

It seems there are many more than seem apparent at first glance.

Williams has been busy!

[Jay 37,369]

1 minute ago, Pieter Boelen said:

I think were going to need timestamps for all the themes in this movie.

 

11 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

An initial attempt at theme recognition from the first few tracks

 

Nazi Theme 1

 

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:16 - 3:27

 

 

Germany, 1944 3:26 - 3:36

 

 

Nazi Theme 2 

 

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 1:55 - 2:29

 

 

Voller Returns 2:17 - 2:35

 

 

 

Voller Theme 1

 

Voller Returns 0:41 - 1:14

 

 

 

Germany, 1944 2:41 - 2:59

 

 

 

11 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Some more perspective themes

 

Archimedes Theme (?)

 

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 4:08 - end (possible concert rendition)

 

 

Archimedes' Tomb 1:13 - 1:46

 

 

 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

 

24 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

THAT many??

I think were going to need timestamps for all the themes in this movie.

It seems there are many more than seem apparent at first glance.

Williams has been busy!

 

SOME TIMESTAMPS - 

 

 Nazi Theme 1
 

Spoiler

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:16 - 3:27

 

 

Germany, 1944 3:26 - 3:36

 

 

 

Nazi Theme 2 
 

Spoiler

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 1:55 - 2:29

 

 

Voller Returns 2:17 - 2:35

 

 

 

Nazi Theme 3

 

Spoiler

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 1:07 - 1:41

 

 

 

The Airport 1:05 - 1:25

 

 

 

Voller Theme 1
 

Spoiler

Voller Returns 0:41 - 1:14

 

 

Germany, 1944 2:41 - 2:59

 

 

 

 Archimedes Theme 
 

Spoiler

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 4:08 - end (possible concert rendition)

 

 

Archimedes' Tomb 1:13 - 1:46

 

 

 

Dial Of Destiny Theme 1

 

Spoiler

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:43 - 4:03

 

 

Polybius Cipher 0:40 - 0:49

 

 

 

(So many bad guy themes/motifs).

 

Also there are SEVERAL other short motifs. This is a dense score. It will take crowdsourcing effort from all of us to nail all of this down.

 

[Jay 37,369]

22 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

It seems a likely candidate, but nothing from the sheet music we’ve seen for ‘Whip at a Gun Fight’ is in this track.
 

 

It's very possible that the film / album uses v2, or v3, or... Instead of v1.1 of this cue. 

[Amer 2,110]

5 hours ago, Damien F said:

 

Its very interesting how Williams is show casing his projects with serious Themes for Women and giving them the full vintage old hollywood treatment. It explains why AMS got onboard at the last minute to do the new arrangement as an added bonus.

 

Charles Gerhardt had planned to do an exclusive album called 'Women of Hollywood' but that project never came to be unfortunately when his recording series suddenly ended.

 

Williams feels very strongly to evoke the glamour of old hollywood and it pays off!!

 

 

[crumbs 14,317]

15 hours ago, Tydirium said:

@Archive Collection Do you happen to recall if the music from the first 20 seconds or so of the recent music featurette is in the film? Maybe in the New York chase or something? Was just wondering, as it’s not on the OST. (Or is it from KOTCS and I’m mistaken?)

 

 

 

Got an answer for you.

 

The first 24 seconds is in the 1944 sequence during the train chase, as is that awesome version of Indy's theme around 0:33. All unreleased.

[Tydirium 1,167]

9 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Got an answer for you.

 

The first 24 seconds is in the 1944 sequence during the train chase, as is that awesome version of Indy's theme around 0:33. All unreleased.

 

Thanks a lot! So bummed that it wasn’t released; I had been really looking forward to it since that featurette vid.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

I have no idea how I didn't notice that terrible jump edit at 3:19 before! 

[iamleyeti 114]

On 29/06/2023 at 7:57 AM, oierem said:

Just saw the movie, without having listened to the album yet.

The score has certainly ups and downs.

The best part is how Helena's theme is used: it's used a lot, and in very different ways. It's clearly the main theme of the movie.

The worst part is the music for the whole prologue. I'm sorry, but it was distracting as hell because every single second of it was reused music from an earlier movie! Every fragment. And each comes from a different cue, pasted together. For me, it sounds very similar to the tracked music for the Battle of Geonosis.

(I know that this sounds like a sacrilege, but honestly.... I don't think there's such a difference between tracked music and literally reused music in this case....).

Thankfully, all the other action cues are much better, even though many of them are CLEARLY based on a previous cue (which again, is distracting).

 

 

Reading "the Battle of Geonosis" made me anxious for a second. What a nightmare. I hate when they do that…

[Mephariel 451]

 

Just finished the score on album. I think Williams' composition and expressiveness are still there during the highlights, but honestly the entire score just lacks energy. It felt like a 90 year old version of the older scores. I will admit that I am not the biggest fan of the Indiana Jones scores though.

[crocodile 8,017]

To be honest, the opening segment feels a bit like "previously on Indiana Jones" reel. It might seem frustrating but in the context of what the film does in terms of its themes and plot, there is some logic to it. It was clearly conceived to be like that, not just randomly needle-dropped. And while I certainly prefer new music every time, if they're going to quote some bits and bobs, this is the right place to do it.

 

Karol

[DrTenma 116]

I was at first quite disappointed... I reached Germany, 1944 and found a lot of previously know music that doesn't seem to fit whatever might be happening (haven't seen the film yet, but I know so well those tracks that are difficult to disconnect from previous images).

 

Now, I'm taking a second listen and, ok, is not so bad. I mean, Williams is never bad; but you understand me. In any case the score makes me even more skeptical with the film. I usually don't like Mangold's directing and my gut feeling is that he doesn't understand music as well as he needs to point Williams into more surprising fields...

[toothless 964]

Water Ballet has me wondering what kind of bugs are crawling and racing while Jones tries to escape them hahaha. Haven't seen the movie so I could be hilariously wrong of course.