HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion

[Doo_liss 6,423]

On 22/12/2023 at 7:24 AM, Luke Skywalker said:

It is not a fan theory. Tinkerbell plotted with hook because she wanted to bring peter back. 

Is that based on the line about the sworn affidavit from T. Bell?

[bollemanneke 3,593]

2-01. Still loving the themes. Jack, you asshole, smashing that watch. Bad form!

2-02. The When You’re Alone statements are glorious! And I’m marvelling at their possible meanings again, like Peter feeling alone. And it’s great to finally hear the next cue where it belongs, as is the violin at 4:39.

2-03. This leads me to a recurring problem with this set that I will keep pointing out: the splitting of tracks. It’s one musical and film sequence, leave it as one track. I do love how the Believe theme is so prevalent here, as if Tink is helping him remember. I totally forgot that passage and, again, the clarity in this set is absolutely stunning. As one member pointed out years ago, though, it’s utterly ridiculous and absurd that we’re supposed to believe Peter totally forgot all this. You might grow up, but you don’t suppress your childhood like that, you just don’t, unless it was severe trauma. Also, the woodwind playing in the flying sequence is extraordinary, but I vastly prefer the Boston Pops Brass section.

2-04. Again, this should really, really not be its own track. I know, I know, it’s a famous track name and all that, but it doesn’t work. In my view, there are two possibilities to make it work: you either keep the original combo of this track with the Face of Pan, because that’s at least a very satisfying listen, or you paste this track at the end of the flying sequence, but not this way. You’re bracing yourself for the final triumph, but instead you get a sloppy ending, a pause, and then your moment of glory.

2-05. I finally hear the Tink variations, love the solo violin again, and, yet again, the ending doesn’t work at all. I feel like I’m listening to recording sessions. Again, I understand the reasoning of wanting to preserve the track title/OST starting point, but it doesn’t flow.

2-06. Hyperactive but overall great track, but Form Ranks starts too late. I know, I know, it’s the OST way, but this really should not have been retained as it is incorrect. It’s not musical.

2-07. And again, the new track is not necessary. I realise a 20-minue track might not be ideal for some, but for me, the way the music was written goes first, and as I recall, there were no intended breaks here.

[bollemanneke 3,593]

2-08. Love the clock thing and the When You’re Alone variation. Spielberg was right to omit the music when Hook is eaten, though, as great as it is.

2-09. The tracking in the film is really awful here. The choral writing is so good too. To think I disliked it years ago. And the flute, oboe and violin solos! Tink once more, brilliant. This final part is basically Williams being Patrick Doyle for four minutes and it’s so great. And the ending! I always imagine myself reaching for the starts and embracing the whole world. The woodwind flourishes are… SOOOOO delicious. They’re trying to capture an almost indescribable sense of happiness to me.

2-10. I love the coda in part one, prefer it to the concert ending. I think The Lost Boys starts a bit too late, though. And we waste too much time on the theme. Exit Music might be great, but I really, really miss Tinker Bell here and Exit Music ends too quietly, too muted.

 

 

[Doo_liss 6,423]

The seperated tracks are fine, it's like a book, with chapters.

[Holko 10,231]

But you don't split chapters in the middle of a sentence.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

4 minutes ago, Holko said:

But you don't split chapters in the middle of a sentence.

Good thing JW and Mike are smart enough not to do that either!

[bollemanneke 3,593]

39 minutes ago, Presto said:

The seperated tracks are fine, it's like a book, with chapters.

That's one way of looking at it, but I don't think it applies here, except in Tink Grows Up's case.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

Solution: listen in a large gym, then the excessive ambience will eliminate the feeling of a break (well, atleast in the case of the Remembering Childhood sequence)

[bollemanneke 3,593]

2-11. This is my version. I kind of understand why one would want to open the program with the other take, but it’s just not for me. The speed is still ‘wrong’, but at least it’s the music I’m used to. Feels more natural.

3-01. Not worth keeping since the other one is so much more beautiful. Also, can somebody please explain to me how Peter is supposed to be able to watch a play about himself in this universe? Did he tell the whole story to a therapist who made him suppress everything while she published a book about their sessions?

2-12. Impossible to choose between this one or the other, both are so nice.

3-02. Nice bells, unremarkable singing.

3-03. The piano accompaniment is gorgeous! I don’t need Julie Andrews’ version and still don’t really understand why she wouldn’t approve of that recording being released. I also can’t imagine Maggie Smith singing this high. And speaking of which, why does Page never sing that final D as high as it ought to be? This is weird, she goes to a lower octave for one note. Weird.

3-04. Sure, I guess.

3-05. Wow, what a spooky alternate!

3-06. This is basically the way most of my celesta LTP experiences sounded. Next.

3-07. I wonder what made JW score the scene like that. Talk about an anti-climactic ending. Next.

3-08. My God! And it starts in major too! Genius! What is that ‘whoo’ sound supposed to be, though? The song kind of becomes less interesting as it unfolds and the beginning is the best, but the score cue will never be the same now.

3-09. Not for my playlist.

2-13. Sure.

3-10. Nice enough, but for all the talk about listening experience, I don’t understand why one would have Presenting the Hook just before Lost Boys Chase. It does not work. Not saying I have a better idea at this point, but this seems weird.

2-14. I really, really do not like the choir. Next.

 

 

 

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,939]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

 

Also, can somebody please explain to me how Peter is supposed to be able to watch a play about himself in this universe? Did he tell the whole story to a therapist who made him suppress everything while she published a book about their sessions?

Have you seen the film?

wendy says the peter pan author wrote the book based on the stories-adventures wendy and her brothers told him.

 

and yes peter must suffer from some repressed memories trauma.

 

probably today adults connect more with their inner child but in the past few adults did, . Maybe that is what the movie wants to reflect.

 

so it may be weird to see peter not wanting anything to do with childhood, seen by todays standards

[bollemanneke 3,593]

But it just makes no sense. Presuming he was happy as Peter Pan, why would he forget all of it? It's like making a movie about Harry Potter in which he represses his childhood with the Dursleys so he can have a good time with them at Christmas as an adult. It would never happen. Even though I don't like everything about my childhood, I still know it all.

[Jurassic Shark 13,158]

10 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Even though I don't like everything about my childhood, I still know it all.

 

How can you know that?

[bollemanneke 3,593]

3-11. I briefly considered keeping it, but it’s unbearable. So they don’t wash either over there? What must Neverland smell like and do they have any pandemics as a result? And they don’t write to their parents! Lost boys? More like loathsome, loutish boys (thank you ChatGPT, for the words).

3-12. I’m keeping this one, though. Best of both worlds: happy-go-lucky orchestra without percussion or stupid kids.

3-13. Great track and album placement. Poor trumpets.

3-14. No words can do justice to this one.

3-15. What a song! I wish Amber Scott had sung this one too.

3-16. Had a good laugh, but I’m really surprised that the title is never set to the first notes of the theme: ‘stick with me, stick with me, stick, with, me…’ That’s how I always imagined it the moment I learned about the title/song.

3-17. Nice track. It sounds more echoey in the film though.

3-18. Keeping this one. It might omit You Are The Pan and Follow that Shadow, but it’s great to keep options open and allow a long Hook track to come up during a shuffle session.

3-19. Tink’s theme as opener, so fantastic. And the song! My goodness! I really, really don’t understand why no effort was made to include more of her theme in it, though, or why JW never made a concert piece for Tink for that matter. Bad form, JW! You stoopid, stoopid man!

2-15. This really worked after Believe. Form Ranks STILL starts too late. Why?

3-20. I might have missed something, but why is the first cue repeated here? Is there a difference? As for that extension, wow! This really should have been in the main program. It just works. A grand conclusion to a grand adventure. I mean, I get the idea of not wanting to deviate from the film, but by that logic, the original trailer music should have opened disc 1.

3-21. This somehow sounds grander than the other version, but I still think the ending is way too muted. It’s almost as if someone didn’t… believe.

3-22. My preferred version in a way, as was to be expected.

3-23. The beginning of this track is so awesome! I do think it should have been put in the main program of the disc.

3-24. Predictable, but nice. A bit weird to end the journey on that note, though.

 

Phew! Now I need a Hook break, but I do want to see that ‘believe your eyes’ deleted scene. Make it happen, somebody.

 

[Holko 10,231]

12 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Phew! Now I need a Hook break, but I do want to see that ‘believe your eyes’ deleted scene. Make it happen, somebody.

 

[Jay 39,428]

25 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I do want to see that ‘believe your eyes’ deleted scene. Make it happen, somebody.

 

It was included on the Blu Ray that came out a few years ago!  I can't find a straight rip of the blu ray version on youtube, but @Goldfingers made this great video that edits it into the footage that remained in the film:

 

 

Notice the bandage on Peter's hand because when it was filmed, it was supposed to end the first Neverland night, and Day 2 was supposed to begin with Hook's lesson before Pick Em Up

[bollemanneke 3,593]

Huh! That's a lovely scene!

[Doo_liss 6,423]

6 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Have you seen the film?

wendy says the peter pan author wrote the book based on the stories-adventures wendy and her brothers told him.

 

and yes peter must suffer from some repressed memories trauma.

 

probably today adults connect more with their inner child but in the past few adults did, . Maybe that is what the movie wants to reflect.

 

so it may be weird to see peter not wanting anything to do with childhood, seen by todays standards

Also, Neverland makes you forget, so I would assume the other way round happens could happen as well, and it seems to have a stronger effect on the young. ("I think I had a mother once")

[bollemanneke 3,593]

Well, Rufio clearly hates and remembers his mother very well, calling Peter a mother lover.

[MrJosh 895]

On 31/12/2023 at 12:19 PM, Holko said:

Hook-movie.com's Mike interview is now up:

 

Really nice interview! I love the enthusiasm Tammy has for Hook in general,  and for this release, and great to hear and see Mike talk about it all. 

 

I hope we can someday have a chance to see some of the extra work that Leslie Bricusse put into writing a lot of lyrics for other ideas and songs that never came to be. Sounds like he really put a lot into the project. 

 

Speaking of Leslie, the Never Song gives me Goodbye Mr. Chips vibes. The fun/ silly lyrics remind me of a song the school boys sing which also with some silly/ clever lyrics going on. 

[Goldfingers 132]

The main idea of the interview was mainly to promote the new CD to a public who are fan of the movie but not specially into soundtrack spheres. I hope they will produce a bit more for those who may not have had the chance to order it now.

 

It was the first time we attempted it live. There will be a new interview in mid-January, and perhaps another one in February. I'm not revealing the guests yet.

[crumbs 14,869]

Has anyone thought of a clever way to integrate the disc 3 bonus tracks into the main disc 3 presentation?

 

It's hard to find a home for the instrumental Pirate Sequence and the vocal Presenting the Hook without repetition (probably why they're placed at the end!)

 

I tried Smee's Concertina Medley between Stick With Me and Take Me Out To The Ballgame, which worked well enough.

[A. A. Ron 1,930]

Well I rearranged the whole set putting all the alternate score cues together and moving the songs to their own section -- Sorry album producers, I did at least listen to Disc 3 as intended the first time, I promise! I also made gapless versions of The Flying Sequence/You Are the Pan and all of the cues from The Ultimate War through The End of Hook (but kept the discrete versions as well). In the interest of making playlists with swappable cues, I separated the End Title and Exit Music and also added the Pirate Town cues to the beginning of the Vocal version of Presenting the Hook. I haven't moved the tracks from the end of Disc 3 anywhere as I like them where they are, but I did put the Concertina between Stop That Clock and The Home Run on one of my playlists.

[Hook1991 10]

I think it was mentioned in mikes interview but did they find all the recording sessions for this release? The whole score is fantastic! So good 

[Jay 39,428]

Yes Mike had everything recorded in 1991

[JohnnyD 1,325]

Hence the crystal clear sound quality and dynamics with the restoration/remastering.

[Hook1991 10]

Awesome! This is fantastic! So much care went into getting this score the proper release it should have. Thank you everyone so much! 

[oierem 180]

Having listened to all 3 Discs as presented (in three consecutive evenings), I've changed the placement of a few tracks, and I've just listened to the complete film score (without all the extras) for the second time, from beginning to end. It's now impossible to listen to all the themes without thinking about the lyrics, which creates a very different listening experience indeed!

 

I've made three small changes:

-I've removed the prologue (it's a musical spoiler and it's not part of the film score, so I've moved the first track to the very end of the additional music section.)

-I've incorporated both non-Williams source cues to the main score presentation. (I always include the source music if it's composed or arranged by Williams. For me, it's part of the score, the same way When You're Alone or the Pirate Town music is).

-I've swaped the Lost Boy Chase tracks, to include the film version on the main programme. 

 

Awesome set and awesome score.

[Jay 39,428]

May I also humbly recommend trying the original, first version of Banning Back Home to be what's in your new main playlist instead of the revised film version?  I personally find it to be a superior composition and performance, and it's really what John Williams always intended, until the revision was done at the VERY last minute purely because Spielberg carved a minute out of the sequence.

 

We actually discussed having that original version be the one in the main program, but the CD length limitations were so tight, they couldn't be swapped!

[Trope 755]

Well, I made it all the way through discs 1 and 2 in a single sitting! My conclusion: This may have shot up to become my favourite John Williams score of all time.

 

I only listened to the Hook OST for the first time this Christmas Eve (due to the realisation that my LLL CD would not arrive until after Christmas), but I was doing other things while I had it on, so I didn't really recall much after I finished. For the Ultimate Edition, I gave the music my 100% undivided attention and followed along with the extremely helpful booklet in order to keep up with the immense number of themes. 

 

This was the single most rewarding listening experience I've had in a very long time. I can't believe I'd never discovered this music until now! Keep in mind, I still haven't even seen the film.

 

This felt like I was sitting through a glorious classical symphony. The music is that detailed and sophisticated, not only in terms of the brilliant orchestration but also the harmonies and instrumental techniques he applies. Some of my favourite moments are when the music really quietens down and Johnny applies the soft tremolo strings, harp and celeste. Pure magic!! At moments it felt as if I was being swept up into one of those classic 2D Disney films, especially when he brings in the chorus - Hit with a wave of nostalgia! This score proves without a doubt that Williams is THE master of film music. 

 

I went in knowing the immense hype surrounding this score (and this new release) and my high expectations were exceeded! I'm excited to check out disc 3 very soon.

[GerateWohl 5,040]

36 minutes ago, Trope said:

Keep in mind, I still haven't even seen the film.

Keep it like that. After this musical experience you just would be disappointed.

[bespinGPT 8,767]

I think if 'Hook' doesn't win the 'Archival Release of the Year' at the IFMCA, this organization will implode.

[Datameister 2,279]

12 hours ago, Jay said:

May I also humbly recommend trying the original, first version of Banning Back Home to be what's in your new main playlist instead of the revised film version?  I personally find it to be a superior composition and performance, and it's really what John Williams always intended, until the revision was done at the VERY last minute purely because Spielberg carved a minute out of the sequence.

 

We actually discussed having that original version be the one in the main program, but the CD length limitations were so tight, they couldn't be swapped!

Interesting! I feel better about having swapped them for my own playlist, haha! (That being said, I'm of course still very glad to have both.)

[oierem 180]

13 hours ago, Jay said:

May I also humbly recommend trying the original, first version of Banning Back Home to be what's in your new main playlist instead of the revised film version?  I personally find it to be a superior composition and performance, and it's really what John Williams always intended, until the revision was done at the VERY last minute purely because Spielberg carved a minute out of the sequence.

 

We actually discussed having that original version be the one in the main program, but the CD length limitations were so tight, they couldn't be swapped!

 

It's a good recommendation, but I don't agree with the idea. Even though the first Banning Back Home is great, and maybe even superior, my criteria for what's in the main playlist is to always follow the actual film score. 

"What Williams always intended" would include the original Never Feast, Ultimate War, or The Flight to Neverland. Or The Departure from E.T. without "Steven's fix". Or the original Binary Sunset. 

The final film score is always a result of the collaboration between composer and director.

[Jay 39,428]

I completely agree, but I would say those other examples all came about through the normal discourse of creating a film score, hearing one thing and then trying another idea, still during the main scoring sessions.

The revised Banning Back Home is different, because it was recorded 4 days after they had already thought they finished everything, and it isn't really that much of a different idea, just a kind of a shorter and differently arranged and performed version of the same idea.

 

But obviously, everyone should feel absolutely comfortable doing absolutely anything they want with their own personal edits, without question!

[Holko 10,231]

This ended up being my first pass at an edit:

 

 

Main program:

• An overall problem I had is that the silences left between tracks are just getting too long for my taste, especially when many tracks already end with long held notes fading out, so I shortened the dead air at the end of many tracks. This and the joining of some tracks actually removed so much time that even though I added music to the main program from the bonus section, the length of my edit main program came back down to 2:16!
• Banning Back Home is the longer earlier version.
• The Bedroom is joined with The Nursery Scene with just a soft overlap, the latter starting near the end of the fadeout of the former - not sure if I'll keep this one together.
• When You're Alone (Moira's Lullaby) is soft joined with Saying Goodbye.
• Forgotten How to Fly is soft joined with The Stories Are True (Alternate), which I used to lose some of the repetitiveness and because I like how its lowkey ominousness leads into the Low Below section better.
• The Arrival of Tink and The Flight to Neverland are joined into one track but with no real overlap, I just wanted to get their timing right.
• Presenting the Hook is the vocal version.
• Enter Rufio and The Lost Boy Chase are joined with a hard overlap (last note with first note). I noticed that a version of the percussion is already there for a section of the main program Chase, so what I did was isolate the revised percussion overlay well enough by phasing the two versions, and put it under the main program version trying to match the volume of the percussion that's already there, this way it's all present (I like the sound of it a lot) but it's not as overpowering as in the bonus track version, and I don't lose the brass from the main program version either.
• Banquet and Never-Feast are joined, I selected a place in the repeating ending of the former where the latter would take over, turns out it's pretty much the same way JW joined them for the concert piece!
• Peter Remembers (The Flying Sequence) is joined with You Are The Pan with a hard overlap, this was the one that bothered me even back when I was just watching the movie on black friday while following along with the LLL tracklist, the latter so perfectly flows from the unfinished winding down energy of the former and caps the sequence off so nicely.
• Tink Grows Up is hard joined with Ultimate War which is hard joined with Death of Rufio which is soft joined with The Sword Fight and The End of Hook, because for the latter I couldn't find a way to hard join them that felt just right. Also, for the Lost Boy entrance segment of Ultimate War, I used the OST version first, then the insert. Lost Boy Fanfare overload! The bit for Peter's Entrance is just the main program version of course, it's a longer and better structured version of the original section which has nothing to add to it.
• I used the alternate Exit Music since it sounds richer.

Then comes the source music/songs section.

• Mothers is the only big loss, it's one thing that I'm not a fan of the lyrics but her singing in it just puts me off completely.
• Instead of it being one big block, I split Smee's Concertina Medley into 3 parts, 0:00-1:34 (with a faked ending with the help of some added reverb), 1:34-3:48 and 3:48-end, so fast pieces, slow pieces, fast pieces. I like how the track is assembled like this on the LLL but for this program I thought this would be more fun and varied.
• I really appreciate Take Me Out to the Ball Game all being on the LLL as is, but for me it's a bit too long for what it is, so I got creative: 0:00-0:26 (one full "theme statement" ending with the bridging ending to transition it), 0:53-1:19 (one full "bridge section" with the bridging ending to transition it), then 1:46-end, overlapped with a reduced volume 1:19-1:46 (one more full "theme statement" with the finale, with the additional "bridge section with finale" to make it sound just a bit bigger for the reprise.

And then finally my usual "alternates suite" where the orchestral alternates went, I tried to represent as many themes as I could:

• Hook Prologue
• Banning Back Home (Film Version) (joined pretty closely, almost to keep up the rhythm)
• The Stories Are True (LLL main program version since I used the alternate in my main program)
• The Never-Feast (0:57-end, the opening just felt more right this way, wanted to represent the insertless version even though I think the revision vastly improves its structure, then I just let it run because again it feels right for the next join)
• The Face of Pan (choral version, hard overlapped with the end of The Never-Feast which works surprisingly well, I love this but I left the instrumental in the main program so that You Are the Pan can remain a step up from it)
• The Arrival of Tink (Alternate) (1:55-end, the only different section is here)
• The Flight to Neverland (Alternate) (0:21-end, in the main program I struggled to hard overlap these two cues as they are and kinda gave up, but here I'm free to remove material from them and I found this perfect hard overlap point to join these two).
• Pirate Sequence (Instrumental) (0:00-3:12 or so) (Not a huge fan of the ending of this without the voices or brass so I took the perfect opportunity to transition here to...
• The instrumental version of Presenting the Hook, starting with the vocal version to utilise its clean opening then switching to the main program version, I also "fixed" the tempo jump in the first "line" so it wouldn't be out of place after the song's consistent tempo, then for a cleaner join I overlapped the clean opening with the piano in Pirate Sequence so that this starts at full volume right away but the piano fades out gradually.
• Farewell Neverland (Short Version - Alternate) (2:24-end, so only the last of the 3 cues)
• Exit Music (main program version since I used the alternate in the main program, these two play together remarkably well when leaving a gap about as long as between End Credits and Exit Music).

[bollemanneke 3,593]

I'll be doing something similar shortly. I'm thinking of actually opening my edit with the songs to really get an impression of how this symphony, if you like, developed. I'll be joining every track that the film does the or music calls for and because of that, I'll have my work cut out getting Form Ranks to start at its proper place. The concert arrangements will propably close the whole thing. Can't wait to start now!

[ChrisAfonso 200]

It's been a long time since I've listened to the OST, and for all the years I've had the 2012 LLL, I can't remember listening to it more than once or twice, so I can't really make any informed comparisons right now... suffice to say, over the last few days I've listened to this set several times already, and it is simply marvelous. In the past I've found the score a bit overwhelming in its wealth of themes and setpieces, but somehow this new presentation makes it a varied and satisfying listen throughout. Not to mention the songs on the last disc giving so much more context to the theme usage in the film! (The only critical observation I could make would be that for my ears, the music and lyrics of the songs sometimes don't mesh very well on a micro-level - the stresses/accents of the text differ from those of the melody...)

 

[Brando 2,161]

9 hours ago, Holko said:

the silences left between tracks are just getting too long

Two questions. Is there a technical reason for the spaces being so long? Jaws has a few that are very long, Setting the Traps from Home Alone has a lot of silence at the end, whereas Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas almost has no silence at the end of it. Another question, @Jay you said somewhere in this thread that in the film, The End of Hook tracks in the choral version of The Face of Pan, right before the choral part actually starts, is there a difference between both versions or are they the same take?

[Doo_liss 6,423]

6 minutes ago, Brando said:

Two questions. Is there a technical reason for the spaces being so long?

His player is adding them 😉

[Jay 39,428]

1 hour ago, Brando said:

in the film, The End of Hook tracks in the choral version of The Face of Pan, right before the choral part actually starts, is there a difference between both versions or are they the same take?

 

It's not "The End of Hook", it's "My Lost Boys" (the first cue in "Farewell Neverland"). The majority of that cue is replaced by "The Face of Pan (Choral Version)" in the film.

 

What happened was, "The Face of Pan" was always intended to have choir, so it was recorded on the day the choir was present. After two complete takes with the choir performing at the end, it was decided to do a pickup take of just the ending part, but without the choir performing. The final performance edit for the film was then made up of parts of both full takes, with the choir-free pickup ending used. This performance edit was re-created for the album as well, and again for The Ultimate Edition's main program.

 

When it was decided to replace part of "My Lost Boys" with "The Face of Pan" in the film, what got tracked in wasn't the performance edit that used multiple takes; it was one of the chosen takes exclusively. So, when constructing the bonus section of The Ultimate Edition, Mike could have easily taken the main program performance edit and just swapped in the choral ending from one of the two takes. But because he wanted to be thorough and include every correct performance heard in the film, he made the entire track be the take that got tracked into the end of the movie. 

 

So that's why it is completely true that every bit of music you hear in the film is on this set: that kind of attention to detail.

[Brando 2,161]

30 minutes ago, Jay said:

t's not "The End of Hook", it's "My Lost Boys" (the first cue in "Farewell Neverland").

You're right, I forgot they weren't attached together on the album, thanks!

[QuartalHarmony 675]

It won't be the most exciting post, but now the End Credits has had an official release, I can list everything properly:

 

Flight to Neverland - what came from where

(using the 1995 Boston Pops recording as reference for timestamps)

 

Bars 1 - 11; 1995 timestamp 0:00 - 0:21

• Taken from Prologue (LLL Disc 2, Track 11), 0:00 - 0:20

Bars 12 - 28; 1995 timestamp 0:21 - 0:47

• Taken from Prologue (LLL Disc 2, Track 11), 0:25 - 0:53

Bars 29 - 104; 1995 timestamp 0:47 - 2:35

• Taken from Peter Remembers (LLL Disc 2, Track 3), 6:20 - 8:03

Bar 105; 1995 timestamp 2:35 - 2:37

• New bar to link sections

Bars 106 - 171; 1995 timestamp 2:37 - 4:17

• Taken from End Credits (LLL Disc 2, Track 10), 0:00 - 1:44

Bars 172 - 181; 1995 timestamp 4:18 - 4:40

• New coda

 

It's interesting that JW chose to cut a mere three bars from the Prologue, saving just a few seconds. To my ears, it flows better with those bars present.

 

Apart from the new bits listed above, the only big change I can spot is that the statement of Peter's theme in bars 53 - 56 (1995 timestamp 1:21 - 1:26) is doubled on trumpets on the OST (LLL D2 T3 6:51 onwards). In the same section on the VPO recording (1:25 onwards), the horns are playing a solid ff (as notated), meaning it comes through clearer and doesn't get a bit lost like it does in the 1995 recording.

 

Mark

[bollemanneke 3,593]

I just noticed that the solo violin in the vocal Give Us The Hook is mixed more prominently. And I love it. The sound quality is just... (don't say bangerang, don't say bangerang...) 

[Doo_liss 6,423]

BANGARANG!!

[bollemanneke 3,593]

And Mothers... MOTHERS!!!! I don't deserve this music.

[Holko 10,231]

On 05/01/2024 at 6:09 PM, Holko said:

This ended up being my first pass at an edit:

 

 

Main program:

• An overall problem I had is that the silences left between tracks are just getting too long for my taste, especially when many tracks already end with long held notes fading out, so I shortened the dead air at the end of many tracks. This and the joining of some tracks actually removed so much time that even though I added music to the main program from the bonus section, the length of my edit main program came back down to 2:16!
• Banning Back Home is the longer earlier version.
• The Bedroom is joined with The Nursery Scene with just a soft overlap, the latter starting near the end of the fadeout of the former - not sure if I'll keep this one together.
• When You're Alone (Moira's Lullaby) is soft joined with Saying Goodbye.
• Forgotten How to Fly is soft joined with The Stories Are True (Alternate), which I used to lose some of the repetitiveness and because I like how its lowkey ominousness leads into the Low Below section better.
• The Arrival of Tink and The Flight to Neverland are joined into one track but with no real overlap, I just wanted to get their timing right.
• Presenting the Hook is the vocal version.
• Enter Rufio and The Lost Boy Chase are joined with a hard overlap (last note with first note). I noticed that a version of the percussion is already there for a section of the main program Chase, so what I did was isolate the revised percussion overlay well enough by phasing the two versions, and put it under the main program version trying to match the volume of the percussion that's already there, this way it's all present (I like the sound of it a lot) but it's not as overpowering as in the bonus track version, and I don't lose the brass from the main program version either.
• Banquet and Never-Feast are joined, I selected a place in the repeating ending of the former where the latter would take over, turns out it's pretty much the same way JW joined them for the concert piece!
• Peter Remembers (The Flying Sequence) is joined with You Are The Pan with a hard overlap, this was the one that bothered me even back when I was just watching the movie on black friday while following along with the LLL tracklist, the latter so perfectly flows from the unfinished winding down energy of the former and caps the sequence off so nicely.
• Tink Grows Up is hard joined with Ultimate War which is hard joined with Death of Rufio which is soft joined with The Sword Fight and The End of Hook, because for the latter I couldn't find a way to hard join them that felt just right. Also, for the Lost Boy entrance segment of Ultimate War, I used the OST version first, then the insert. Lost Boy Fanfare overload! The bit for Peter's Entrance is just the main program version of course, it's a longer and better structured version of the original section which has nothing to add to it.
• I used the alternate Exit Music since it sounds richer.

Then comes the source music/songs section.

• Mothers is the only big loss, it's one thing that I'm not a fan of the lyrics but her singing in it just puts me off completely.
• Instead of it being one big block, I split Smee's Concertina Medley into 3 parts, 0:00-1:34 (with a faked ending with the help of some added reverb), 1:34-3:48 and 3:48-end, so fast pieces, slow pieces, fast pieces. I like how the track is assembled like this on the LLL but for this program I thought this would be more fun and varied.
• I really appreciate Take Me Out to the Ball Game all being on the LLL as is, but for me it's a bit too long for what it is, so I got creative: 0:00-0:26 (one full "theme statement" ending with the bridging ending to transition it), 0:53-1:19 (one full "bridge section" with the bridging ending to transition it), then 1:46-end, overlapped with a reduced volume 1:19-1:46 (one more full "theme statement" with the finale, with the additional "bridge section with finale" to make it sound just a bit bigger for the reprise.

And then finally my usual "alternates suite" where the orchestral alternates went, I tried to represent as many themes as I could:

• Hook Prologue
• Banning Back Home (Film Version) (joined pretty closely, almost to keep up the rhythm)
• The Stories Are True (LLL main program version since I used the alternate in my main program)
• The Never-Feast (0:57-end, the opening just felt more right this way, wanted to represent the insertless version even though I think the revision vastly improves its structure, then I just let it run because again it feels right for the next join)
• The Face of Pan (choral version, hard overlapped with the end of The Never-Feast which works surprisingly well, I love this but I left the instrumental in the main program so that You Are the Pan can remain a step up from it)
• The Arrival of Tink (Alternate) (1:55-end, the only different section is here)
• The Flight to Neverland (Alternate) (0:21-end, in the main program I struggled to hard overlap these two cues as they are and kinda gave up, but here I'm free to remove material from them and I found this perfect hard overlap point to join these two).
• Pirate Sequence (Instrumental) (0:00-3:12 or so) (Not a huge fan of the ending of this without the voices or brass so I took the perfect opportunity to transition here to...
• The instrumental version of Presenting the Hook, starting with the vocal version to utilise its clean opening then switching to the main program version, I also "fixed" the tempo jump in the first "line" so it wouldn't be out of place after the song's consistent tempo, then for a cleaner join I overlapped the clean opening with the piano in Pirate Sequence so that this starts at full volume right away but the piano fades out gradually.
• Farewell Neverland (Short Version - Alternate) (2:24-end, so only the last of the 3 cues)
• Exit Music (main program version since I used the alternate in the main program, these two play together remarkably well when leaving a gap about as long as between End Credits and Exit Music).

And thanks to @bollemanneke I already updated it - I thought the join between Crossed Swords and Form Ranks was weak but is what it is until I looked at the film where they're joined much better, so I replicated that with the help of tiny bits from the leak for a clean opening and ending and a clean join. Of course the OST edit had to be kept for the OST track but yeah it's a bit weird that the main program version which is already different in including the two inserts didn't fix the join of these two cues.

[Brando 2,161]

I also noticed the first insert is attached differently in the film, like it was edited on a little rough. You still hear a bit of the cymbal crash when the film insert begins.

[Jay 39,428]

A new The Legacy Of John Williams podcast episode is up, featuring @TownerFan, @mahler3, @John Takis, me, and Mike Matessino

 

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2023/12/27/hook-podcast-special/

[Trope 755]

Okay, so I just watched the film for the first time.

 

I really enjoyed it! I went in with low expectations (given all the reviews I've seen), but I found it really charming and touching at points too, especially the father-son relationship. Of course, Johnny's music absolutely carries the whole thing from start to finish. There were even some scenes that I very nearly shed a tear due to how powerful the score was. 

 

This new LLL release has led to my discovery of an exceptional Williams score (in the most complete and highest quality form) and a lovely Spielberg film.

[Trope 755]

Home Run from 1:01-1:57 is a contender for my single favourite moment in this magnificent score!

 

The other is 6:05-8:03 in Peter Remembers (The Flying Sequence). The trumpet dialoguing with the melody 6:28-6:47 is so awesome. And that fluid string counterline at 7:37! Pure floating brilliance!

 

I'm sure I'll keep finding more favourites as I keep this score on repeat.