Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, Stefancos said: You need to read about the Ring Theory! Ring theory is actually a part of complex algebra! Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Oh goodie. Here we go. Midichlorians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2018 Revel in ignorance. This supposed film journalist who is also a film critic and the editor at large of an online film publication outlet thinks Han has 3 seperate "songs" to his name in V VI and VII and that Williams is writing a fourth "song" for Han for this film. https://theplaylist.net/john-williams-solo-star-wars-story-20180102/ Exhibit A as to why the opinions on film score of these hippie new age blogger/film critics are basically BS. They are literally talking out of their ass when talking about film scores and don't know what the hell they are on about. Fancyarcher, Holko, ocelot and 5 others 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2018 Than again, half the people here see dozens and dozens of supposed "motifs" that Williams never ever intended for, too. gkgyver, Pieter Boelen and Ricard 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 48 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: Revel in ignorance. This supposed film journalist who is also a film critic and the editor at large of an online film publication outlet thinks Han has 3 seperate "songs" to his name in V VI and VII and that Williams is writing a fourth "song" for Han for this film. https://theplaylist.net/john-williams-solo-star-wars-story-20180102/ Hey, they're great songs! Quote No reason has been given why Williams has been roped into the spinoff, but it will allow him to write another song for the character following “Han Solo and the Princess” for “Star Wars: Episode V – The Empire Strikes Back,” “Han Solo Returns (At the Court of Jabba The Hut)” for “Star Wars: Episode VI – Return of the Jedi” and “Han and Leia” for “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.” mstrox and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/30/2017 at 9:29 AM, Stefancos said: I think he only composed the new themes. On 12/30/2017 at 9:32 AM, Jurassic Shark said: Didn't he compose the themes (including orchestration or approving orchestration), while Bill Ross adapted them and conducted? Williams was supposed to only write a few themes but ended up writing the whole new score material and Bill Ross adapted material from Sorcerer's Stone to put into other sections. This whole ongoing notion that Bill Ross is secretly writing for John is pure horse crap, lol. Williams love to use him on conducting assignments now because of his ongoing back troubles etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/30/2017 at 1:46 PM, Skywanker said: Go away, Zimmer! Trashy, crass, utterly classless, dragging three great composers through the muck. Its creator, you who posted it, and all those who liked it should be ashamed. Darth Mulder, Bryant Burnette, Pieter Boelen and 2 others 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/30/2017 at 11:55 AM, TheUlyssesian said: 2. Very underhand and Kennedy kinda clipped Powell's nuts with this right? Imagine telling someone You getting to score what is surely the biggest film in your career in the biggest brand franchise on Earth but you are not good enough to write the main theme? It is humiliating. Surely Kennedy couldn't have done this with Gia or Desplat? Kennedy could easily have done that with any composer out there. Composers are work for hire, be it for a whole film or theme. I do believe Williams wanted to do this himself. If you think, he has a theme (or at least a motif) for Luke, Leia, Yoda, Rey, Poe, Vader, Kylo etc etc, but no theme for Han. Now he gets to have the main characters covered for his oeuvre. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mulder 154 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: Trashy, crass, utterly classless, dragging three great composers through the muck. Its creator, you who posted it, and all those who liked it should be ashamed. WTF? You are hypersensitive!!! DarthDementous, Breadstick Basilisk and HuberSepp 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, ocelot said: Kennedy could easily have done that with any composer out there. Composers are work for hire, be it for a whole film or theme. I do believe Williams wanted to do this himself. If you think, he has a theme (or at least a motif) for Luke, Leia, Yoda, Rey, Poe, Vader, Kylo etc etc, but no theme for Han. Now he gets to have the main characters covered for his oeuvre. Well Williams was never asked to write Jyn's theme even when Desplat and Gia were onboard for R1. So there is clearly a difference here. While I love the fact that JW is writing Han's theme, there is no reason he should be writing it. This movie is a one-off and the theme wont be used in any other film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 One thing I think I am hearing on this thread is the notion that John Powell's style or orchestral music is not up to snuff for the project. As far as I am concerned, John Powell is a fantastic orchestral composer. He goes more modern with other projects, but the guy can write for orchestra. Anyone who doesn't think so is off base to me. He has the chops. I really don't think this is a "oh shit, the score is not good" I think this is probably either Disney coming to Williams and saying, hey, you never wrote a theme for Han Solo, do you want to? Or Williams going, Hey, I never wrote a theme for Han Solo, do you want it? That's all. Fabulous news for us, and not a sleight on Powell. The guy is a great fully formed orchestral composer, unlike that cappuccino guy as someone called him, lol, I did think that was funny 2 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: Well Williams was never asked to write Jyn's theme even when Desplat and Gia were onboard for R1. So there is clearly a difference here. While I love the fact that JW is writing Han's theme, there is no reason he should be writing it. This movie is a one-off and the theme wont be used in any other film. See my above post. I believe that is because Han is an established character in the movies and Williams never wrote a theme for him. Jyn and the rest are all new characters that Williams does not have a past with. That's all I believe this is, no more. However, make no mistake. Kathleen Kennedy calls ALL the shots here. She could have asked Williams to write something for Rogue One. They just did not at the time and there was already a clusterfuck of a thing happening with the firing of Desplat and bringing in Cappuccino and his help to do the score very fast. Williams also likes to take time on his scores and themes from everything I know. He wrote so many different variations of Rey's theme and was not satisfied till the end. 5 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: Revel in ignorance. This supposed film journalist who is also a film critic and the editor at large of an online film publication outlet thinks Han has 3 seperate "songs" to his name in V VI and VII and that Williams is writing a fourth "song" for Han for this film. https://theplaylist.net/john-williams-solo-star-wars-story-20180102/ Exhibit A as to why the opinions on film score of these hippie new age blogger/film critics are basically BS. They are literally talking out of their ass when talking about film scores and don't know what the hell they are on about. And this guy calls himself a film critic?! LOL..... What a Joke. I posted to his article not that it will make any difference. Pieter Boelen and MikeH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Skywanker said: WTF? You are hypersensitive!!! You are polluting this forum, one of many. Ignored. Darth Mulder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 12 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: You are polluting this forum, one of many. Ignored. Am I ignored too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 55 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Am I ignored too? Don't you have the app that lets you see who's ignoring you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 There's one out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: Am I ignored too? Of course not, you're a treasure, a JWFan institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 He belongs in a museum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I miss @artyjeffrey Jay and Marian Schedenig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 It's pretty easy to guess whether or not I've ignored you. -Are you a relatively new member whose content includes a significant portion of childish Zimmer jokes? -Are you here, and posting often, solely as a result of the new Star Wars score? -Are you unable to tell when I don a mantle of caricatured self righteousness, and do you fire back on all cylinders as a result? -Are you gkgyver? 18 hours ago, ocelot said: And this guy calls himself a film critic?! LOL..... What a Joke. I posted to his article not that it will make any difference. Film music journalism/writing needs only the likes of Alex Ross, Frank Lehman, and Doug Adams. Best to ignore the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstrox 6,651 Posted January 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2018 I don't block anybody. I would hate to miss a good post! Jay, Cerebral Cortex, Jurassic Shark and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2018 14 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: -Are you a relatively new member whose content includes a significant portion of childish Zimmer jokes? -Are you here, and posting often, solely as a result of the new Star Wars score? -Are you unable to tell when I don a mantle of caricatured self righteousness, and do you fire back on all cylinders as a result? -Are you gkgyver? I'm 3 out of 4! crumbs, Ollie and Jurassic Shark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 So if Williams is so desperate to write a theme for Han (which he really does need to do), why didn't he take the opportunity with TFA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 My guess is that he found that the score already had enough themes in it (new and old). Williams doesn't like to write particularly dense scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: So if Williams is so desperate to write a theme for Han (which he really does need to do), why didn't he take the opportunity with TFA? JJ forbade it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Breadstick Basilisk 108 Posted January 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2018 45 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: So if Williams is so desperate to write a theme for Han (which he really does need to do), why didn't he take the opportunity with TFA? By that logic, why didn't he take the opportunity in ROTJ? Or in ESB? Or in ANH? The point is that this movie is literally named after the character, so it would make the most sense for there to finally be a theme for the character. And Williams wants to be the one to write that theme. Jurassic Shark, Pieter Boelen and John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: Film music journalism/writing needs only the likes of Alex Ross, Frank Lehman, and Doug Adams. Best to ignore the rest. No love for John Burlingame, TGP? I'm just asking, but...why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Wait until I get my hands on this franchise. Bout to drop dem synths! igger6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Lord Zimmer said: Wait until I get my hands on this franchise. Bout to drop dem synths! igger6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Is he running away from the asylum? Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Richard said: No love for John Burlingame, TGP? I'm just asking, but...why is that? Simply slipped the mind. Also thumbs up for Kaya Savas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I'm not familiar with this person. I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom 4,658 Posted January 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2018 Just pure speculation on my part, but to the discussion on why Williams did not compose a theme for Jyn or such for RO, maybe it was the time factor or complete lack of interest. However, it might be because she was a new character, so there was not really a connection to it. Han Solo, on the other hand, goes to the heart of his SW scoring over the last 40 years, and he might have felt a certain "ownership" that he does not for new characters. Will, Jurassic Shark, Gurkensalat and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Tom said: Just pure speculation on my part, but to the discussion on why Williams did not compose a theme for Jyn or such for RO, maybe it was the time factor or complete lack of interest. However, it might be because she was a new character, so there was not really a connection to it. Han Solo, on the other hand, goes to the heart of his SW scoring over the last 40 years, and he might have felt a certain "ownership" that he does not for new characters. Jyn's theme obviously takes its inspiration from Rey's Theme, and by the time Giacchino was brought on, there was little time to think about asking anyone else to write a theme for a singular character. If Williams was asked to write a theme for Solo my guess is that they wanted to breed familiarity and close the gaps between the standalone films and the main saga in terms of the music. At this point the film has gone through reshoot hell, and attaching Williams to it seems like a good press move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I'd be shocked if Williams wasn't asked to compose both Rogue One and Solo, but turned them down. Then, later, he may have thought of something that he figured would make for a good Han Solo theme and reached out to somebody and said, hey, remember when you asked me to work on this movie? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Tom said: Just pure speculation on my part, but to the discussion on why Williams did not compose a theme for Jyn or such for RO, maybe it was the time factor or complete lack of interest. However, it might be because she was a new character, so there was not really a connection to it. Han Solo, on the other hand, goes to the heart of his SW scoring over the last 40 years, and he might have felt a certain "ownership" that he does not for new characters. Nah. He saw Felicity Jones' performance and bailed. On his way out he said, "Kathy there's one and only one Daisy. And I am only going to write music for her. There's Desplat for amateurs like Felicity." crumbs, Pieter Boelen and Jay 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 9 hours ago, Muad'Dib said: Oh, I thought you were mocking him with that video. Btw, thanks for the cool meme. Now you may remove that disturbing picture in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,658 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 9 hours ago, Arpy said: At this point the film has gone through reshoot hell, and attaching Williams to it seems like a good press move? I do not see this as a PR move. Disney knows the average fan is not going to care one bit who scores this thing. Maybe 200 people will now see Solo (when they otherwise would not have) given Williams' theme. Plus, if they really thought new JW music was good PR, they would have used it in their marketing of VII and VIII in a substantial way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miz 139 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I don't see how it couldn't be a PR move. Of course it's not solely a PR move (aha!), but it is obviously about marketing the movie, like all of the movie and the talk about its creation is. I'm going out on a limb and wondering whether Han's theme will be based at least partly on The Asteroid Field - a one-off melody that scores Solo's audacity, and can be turned into something with attitude (John Powell has been writing themes 'with attitude' for some time now!). It also has to be a melody with a hook, and Johnny hasn't been writing many of those lately (as engaging as Holdo's Resolve and March of the Resistance are to listen to for me, as a film score fan, hooks they have not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,658 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Miz said: I don't see how it couldn't be a PR move. Of course it's not solely a PR move (aha!), but it is obviously about marketing the movie, like all of the movie and the talk about its creation is. Well, insofar as anyone connected to the movie taking about the movie is PR, then yes, this is PR. But the decision to have Williams write the theme does not seem like PR to me. The only way it increases the BO is if the theme is so good it elevates the movie. this may happen and this may even be Disney's intention, but I just don't see this as a PR issue (again, unless everything connected to the movie is PR--then the term just loses any real meaning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ludwig 1,120 Posted January 5, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2018 8 hours ago, Miz said: I'm going out on a limb and wondering whether Han's theme will be based at least partly on The Asteroid Field - a one-off melody that scores Solo's audacity, and can be turned into something with attitude (John Powell has been writing themes 'with attitude' for some time now!). It also has to be a melody with a hook, and Johnny hasn't been writing many of those lately (as engaging as Holdo's Resolve and March of the Resistance are to listen to for me, as a film score fan, hooks they have not). That would be cool, but my guess is that Han's theme will be in a minor key unlike the Asteroid Field's opening melody, which is major-based. It's interesting to compare good-guy themes from the OT and ST so far in terms of whether they are based on a major or minor tonic, especially since the ST is closely modeled on the OT: Original Trilogy - Luke's Theme - Major - Leia's Theme - Major - Rebel Fanfare - Major - Force Theme - Minor - Han Solo and the Princess - Major - Yoda - Major - Ewoks - Major - Luke and Leia - Major Sequel Trilogy (so far) - Rey's Theme - Minor - Poe's Theme - Minor - March of the Resistance - Minor - Luke in Exile - Minor - Desperation (of the Resistance) - Minor - Rose - Major There's a very clear trend of having the primary good-guy themes in the sequel trilogy almost entirely minor (only Rose's Theme is major, no doubt due to her childlike innocence) whereas in the original trilogy, they are very much the opposite - almost all major (only the Force Theme is minor, no doubt due to its function as a "struggle" theme). This change from major to minor is probably due to the change in the tone of films nowadays. So many films of the 80s have an optimistic tone whereas today they are much darker and in many ways pessimistic, and I think Williams is reflecting this trend in his music for the heroes. Anyway, I thought this would be interesting to share. So yes, I'm guessing Han's Theme will be in a minor key. Cerebral Cortex, John, crumbs and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 On 2. Januar 2018 at 8:08 PM, Chen G. said: Than again, half the people here see dozens and dozens of supposed "motifs" that Williams never ever intended for, too. And the other half can't hear a Battle Of The Heroes quote when it nibbles on their nuts, and hears Imperial March references where there are none (The Spark). Pieter Boelen and TheUlyssesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, gkgyver said: And the other half can't hear a Battle Of The Heroes quote when it nibbles on their nuts, and hears Imperial March references where there are none (The Spark). If anything I would say the Imperial March idea has more backing than the Battle of the Heroes. That some think he quoted or unconsciously plagiarized the latter is honestly surprising to me. Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 12 hours ago, Ludwig said: That would be cool, but my guess is that Han's theme will be in a minor key unlike the Asteroid Field's opening melody, which is major-based. It's interesting to compare good-guy themes from the OT and ST so far in terms of whether they are based on a major or minor tonic, especially since the ST is closely modeled on the OT: Original Trilogy - Luke's Theme - Major - Leia's Theme - Major - Rebel Fanfare - Major - Force Theme - Minor - Han Solo and the Princess - Major - Yoda - Major - Ewoks - Major - Luke and Leia - Major Sequel Trilogy (so far) - Rey's Theme - Minor - Poe's Theme - Minor - March of the Resistance - Minor - Luke in Exile - Minor - Desperation (of the Resistance) - Minor - Rose - Major There's a very clear trend of having the primary good-guy themes in the sequel trilogy almost entirely minor (only Rose's Theme is major, no doubt due to her childlike innocence) whereas in the original trilogy, they are very much the opposite - almost all major (only the Force Theme is minor, no doubt due to its function as a "struggle" theme). This change from major to minor is probably due to the change in the tone of films nowadays. So many films of the 80s have an optimistic tone whereas today they are much darker and in many ways pessimistic, and I think Williams is reflecting this trend in his music for the heroes. Anyway, I thought this would be interesting to share. So yes, I'm guessing Han's Theme will be in a minor key. Pardon my ignorance, but what does major and minor mean in terms of music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,482 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, someonefun124 said: Pardon my ignorance, but what does major and minor mean in terms of music? Ludwig and Balahkay 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 44 minutes ago, someonefun124 said: Pardon my ignorance, but what does major and minor mean in terms of music? I'm referring to them as the "home" chord of a theme, which in most cases (and in all those I cited) is the first chord we hear, which sets the chord as a kind of home base for the music. Major and minor are usually described as being opposite to one another, major being "happy", minor being "sad". Of course this is over-simplified, so I like to say that major is positive whereas minor is negative, at least in the way they are portrayed in most Western music. Part of me also thinks (or maybe wants to believe) there will be a love theme in Solo, and if that's the case, you can bet it would be major rather than minor, regardless of who composes it. Balahkay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Great, thanks for the explanation and videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Ludwig said: Part of me also thinks (or maybe wants to believe) there will be a love theme in Solo, and if that's the case, you can bet it would be major rather than minor, regardless of who composes it. But since Han Solo doesn't have a lover during the events of Star Wars, surely any romance which will transpire during the events of Solo will have failed or ended in tragedy. That sets us up to a tragic love theme, which will probably by in minor, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 45 minutes ago, Chen G. said: But since Han Solo doesn't have a lover during the events of Star Wars, surely any romance which will transpire during the events of Solo will have failed or ended in tragedy. Well, not that we know about. He doesn't return Leia's "I love you" at the end of TESB. Hmm, a sense a mistress somewhere. Scoundrel! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 For all it's worth, the EU portrayed Han as a frequent womanizer and girl chaser before the events of ANH, so I personally don't doubt that Han will have a love interest, perhaps even several, in this film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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