Edmilson 7,466 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 20 minutes ago, Signals said: That brings up an interesting question, what historical figures has he scored? Lincoln Nixon (too recent?) JFK? Adams? Oskar Schindler may qualify as well. And wasn't Mel Gibson's character in The Patriot based on a real figure from the American Independence War? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Courtney Sees Ghosts 269 Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Bellosh said: Here's my (way too early) ranking of all the cues. 1. To Athens 2. To Morocco 3. Helena's Theme (look this should probably technically be number 1, but as the suite, I probably won't listen to it as much on it's own as some other cues) 4. Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 5. The Airport 6. Battle of Syracuse 7. Centuries Join Hands 8. New York, 1969 (simply cause the raiders march) 9. Voller Returns 10. Germany, 1944 (if it didn't have the coda at the end it'd probably be lower) 11. Tuk Tuk in Tangiers 12. The Grafikos 13. Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique 14. Archimedes' Tomb 15. Perils of the Deep 16. Water Ballet 17. Polybius Cipher To Athens is starting to rank higher on more listens. Obi, Tydirium, Pieter Boelen and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,694 Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 I've slightly lost the 'hey, this is good!' factor I got when I first heard it. I think I was mostly just pleased that this score doesn't have the massive problem KotCS has in its mid section. I also think that generally, the action here is nowhere near as good as Williams used to do. He's got some very fun orchestration and melody in places, but the structure, build-ups and general excitement I get from (some random ones) Quidditch, Third Year or T-Rex Rescue just aren't here and it strongly feels to me like after the Airport/Syracuse cues, it just sort of stops without any proper resolution. Tuk Tuk does have the nice action treatment of Helena's theme, but when it's not doing that it's just typical Williams zylophone and racing strings. There's absolutely zero new or unexpected going on here. I guess I'm concluding that overall this is a fine job and has a sprinkling of moments where he came up with something really nice, but the man's 90 and is understandably using reliable, but very much trodden techniques for the most part. igger6, Jilal, Pieter Boelen and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I've slightly lost the 'hey, this is good!' factor I got when I first heard it. I think I was mostly just pleased that this score doesn't have the massive problem KotCS has in its mid section. I also think that generally, the action here is nowhere near as good as Williams used to do. He's got some very fun orchestration and melody in places, but the structure, build-ups and general excitement I get from (some random ones) Quidditch, Third Year or T-Rex Rescue just aren't here and it strongly feels to me like after the Airport/Syracuse cues, it just sort of stops without any proper resolution. Tuk Tuk does have the nice action treatment of Helena's theme, but when it's not doing that it's just typical Williams zylophone and racing strings. There's absolutely zero new or unexpected going on here. I guess I'm concluding that overall this is a fine job and has a sprinkling of moments where he came up with something really nice, but the man's 90 and is understandably using reliable, but very much trodden techniques for the most part. I know it was just a random example but T-Rex Rescue is one of the best action cues written in the history of cinema so it probably isn't a fair comparison. Jurassic Shark and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 I'm so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc.. Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me. Taikomochi, Martinland, Remco and 4 others 1 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Damien F 1,742 Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 It is OK to dislike or be disappointed by a new JW score. TolkienSS, Joni Wiljami, Archive Collection and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Oh thank you for defending. You are a good person. I was seriously worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 I'll take up drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,353 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Music doesn't run on an achievement system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 789 Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 After my first proper listen I must say that I started to pick up on more thematic connections, and there are some great tracks that didn't stood out to me that much in the movie, probably because they were mixed a bit low. The best parts are when Williams dissects Helena's theme in action mode, especially in tracks like The Airport, but I'm starting to like more and more the two ideas associated with Archimedes and the Dial, both appearing in the last couple of minutes of the Prologue. I also like how that track serves as a sort of overture presenting all the main new ideas for the movie, even if I haven't been able yet to identify all the evil / nazi themes, as they tend to bleed into each other a bit. I will definitely give it many more listens, and it works great as a listening experience, and from what I can recall from watching the movie, nothing really that important is missing, apart from some action cues being longer, and some thematic statements from early in the movie being also missing. Tydirium, Bellosh, Remco and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Courtney Sees Ghosts 269 Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Joni Wiljami said: I'm so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc.. Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me. While doing the Oscar run for The Fabelmans, he talked about Spielberg's dad and how he lived to be 100. Said he's got 10 more years and Spielberg is hard to say no to. We'll get a new Williams score in a year or two. Depends on whether or not he gets that Bond movie. Pieter Boelen, MaxTheHouseelf, Brando and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,419 Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Courtney said: While doing the Oscar run speaking of which....I could genuinely see the academy liking Helena's Theme so much that DoD wins best score. What a trip that would be! I mean shit, if ALL the sequel trilogy movies can be nominated, then DoD can too! Courtney Sees Ghosts, Brando, Tydirium and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sees Ghosts 269 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bellosh said: speaking of which....I could genuinely see the academy liking Helena's Theme so much that DoD wins best score. What a trip that would be! I mean shit, if ALL the sequel trilogy movies can be nominated, then DoD can too! Because it's a summer release, it's a lot easier to spread awareness for throughout the campaign trail instead of coming near the end like the Sequel scores. If all else fails, John will probably get another Best Instrumental Composition Grammy. Bellosh and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,419 Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 me explaining to the Academy that 'Helena's Theme' is actually a song so it can win best original song Holko, Martinland, Jay and 12 others 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Damien F 1,742 Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bellosh said: me explaining to the Academy that 'Helena's Theme' is actually a song so it can win best original song It is listed under Songs on Spotify. What more evidence do they need! enderdrag64, Pieter Boelen, Courtney Sees Ghosts and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,038 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 20 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: SOME TIMESTAMPS - Nazi Theme 1 Reveal hidden contents Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:16 - 3:27 Germany, 1944 3:26 - 3:36 Nazi Theme 2 Reveal hidden contents Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 1:55 - 2:29 Voller Returns 2:17 - 2:35 Nazi Theme 3 Reveal hidden contents Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 1:07 - 1:41 The Airport 1:05 - 1:25 Voller Theme 1 Reveal hidden contents Voller Returns 0:41 - 1:14 Germany, 1944 2:41 - 2:59 Archimedes Theme Reveal hidden contents Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 4:08 - end (possible concert rendition) Archimedes' Tomb 1:13 - 1:46 Dial Of Destiny Theme 1 Reveal hidden contents Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:43 - 4:03 Polybius Cipher 0:40 - 0:49 (So many bad guy themes/motifs). Also there are SEVERAL other short motifs. This is a dense score. It will take crowdsourcing effort from all of us to nail all of this down. Are you sure that what you have down for Voller’s theme isn’t the dial theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 14 minutes ago, DangerMotif said: Are you sure that what you have down for Voller’s theme isn’t the dial theme? It seems to correspond to all instances of Voller appearing or doing something no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,038 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Just now, TheUlyssesian said: It seems to correspond to all instances of Voller appearing or doing something no? It also appears with Helena and Indy with the dial. The impression I got was that it’s the dial theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,835 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, JTWfan77 said: There's lots of discussion on FSM about issues with the sound on this release but I haven't noticed anyone here mention it. I plan to listen tomorrow but was wondering if anyone here had any comments about this. There is a weird kind of thumping sound at the beginning of the Prologue (1.24). But I can only hear it with my headphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,167 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 Re: The people over at FSM complaining about the mix… It sounds better than the mix on practically any of Giacchino’s scores; do they always complain about those as well? 1977, Edmilson, Trope and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,353 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I will say it's one of the more concertlike sounding of his OST's recordings, maybe even more than Lincoln Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post igger6 894 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 7 hours ago, Alex said: Most people his age are either dead or not eating solid foods. Somehow this image sums up the miracle of the last seven or eight years more eloquently than almost anything else we’ve said here. Sixty-plus years of movies. Centuries Join Hands indeed. 4 hours ago, Signals said: That brings up an interesting question, what historical figures has he scored? Lincoln Nixon (too recent?) JFK? Adams? Michael Dukakis! And Hitler from TLC! Pieter Boelen, Taikomochi, Cerebral Cortex and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,353 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 31 minutes ago, igger6 said: Michael Dukakis! Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mulder 154 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 hour ago, igger6 said: Michael Dukakis! Williams is a Democrat, that's one of the reasons he's a genius. Come on, someone write his religion and political views https://hollowverse.com/~kg/kg%3A%2Fm%2F0146pg Taikomochi, Unlucky Bastard, Brando and 3 others 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Tydirium said: Re: The people over at FSM complaining about the mix… It sounds better than the mix on practically any of Giacchino’s scores; do they always complain about those as well? Yeah, the recording or mix is terrible. Trumpets sound flat and that timpani is overmixed. The overall recording/mix makes the orchestra sound really small. -Erik- 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,353 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 17 minutes ago, Erik Woods said: timpani is overmixed. -Erik- (*Channeling @Jurassic Shark*) maybe Don Williams mixed it. igger6 and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,317 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 Surprising, I love how the OST sounds! Certainly prefer the sound of this album to TFA and TROS (and TLC and KOTCS for that matter). Holko, Tydirium, ragoz350 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, Erik Woods said: Yeah, the recording or mix is terrible. Trumpets sound flat and that timpani is overmixed. The overall recording/mix makes the orchestra sound really small. -Erik- Huh, I think the trumpets sound about how they usually do in these LA recordings (which sometimes may be a tad on the flat side, but I’ve not noticed anything too egregious in this score), and the timpani hasn’t bothered me yet. But I’ll take a closer listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panama Jack 9 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Without getting into spoilers, is the Soundtrack track list in chronological order as per how it plays in the film? If not, has anyone figured out yet what the chronological order would be (without having to split or edit any tracks)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 4 hours ago, Alex said: There is a weird kind of thumping sound at the beginning of the Prologue (1.24). But I can only hear it with my headphones. That’s a bass drum. 1977, crumbs and Remco 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,369 Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 30/06/2023 at 3:11 PM, Panama Jack said: Without getting into spoilers, is the Soundtrack track list in chronological order as per how it plays in the film? If not, has anyone figured out yet what the chronological order would be (without having to split or edit any tracks)? 18, 3, 5, 4, 6-17, 2, 1 JWilliamsFan1999 and Panama Jack 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 58 minutes ago, Jay said: 18, 3-17,2,1 Pretty sure Voller Returns belongs before To Morocco. Panama Jack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 964 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Erik Woods said: Yeah, the recording or mix is terrible. Trumpets sound flat and that timpani is overmixed. The overall recording/mix makes the orchestra sound really small. -Erik- Flat as in under pitch, or as in lacking dimensionality? They sound in tune to me, but definitely a different sound from the st. I'm not sure the timpani is overmixed so much as miked too closely, a growing problem in the classical world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post michael_grig 472 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 Personally, I have four highlights: This string run beginning at 1:11 of "To Athens"! My absolute favorite little gesture in this score. Archimedes' theme is my new favorite Indy mystery theme! I love how it is featured in the prologue, it really deserves it's own concert suite! Too bad there is so little of it in the actual film! 00:46-00:59 of "To Morocco". Just heartwarming. Also, the intro to "New York, 1969" is another masterclass in string composition, immaculate. Cerebral Cortex, Taikomochi and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,631 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 I was thinking that Helena's Theme in the first 1.07 of Prologue (which I think is unused in the film) is an alternate of To Morroco (2.06-end). it's has the same celeste intro and length 22 minutes ago, Michael G. said: Archimedes' theme is my new favorite Indy mystery theme! I love how it is featured in the prologue, it really deserves it's own concert suite! Too bad there is so little of it in the actual film! yeah me too as I've said a few times. I got stuck playing the last minute and a half of prologue in a loop when I first listened to the OST At exactly 1.56 of To Athens, that might be one of the best renditions of the Raider March ever michael_grig, crumbs and Tydirium 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,317 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 A small but interesting detail I've had verified from a musician who performed on the sessions. They confirmed the only thing recorded on the day ASM attended the sessions was the violin arrangement of Helena's Theme. No film cues or anything else, just that arrangement (and it was noteworthy because a camera crew was in attendance). So I'm wondering, when Williams said he was writing a "new ending" last year, was he actually referring to the OST? It is the final track after all... BrotherSound, Jay, MrJosh and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 According to this video he sounds very specific to shooting a new ending: BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mulder 154 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I want a Giacchino score for the new Indy...with youthful spirit for octogenarian leading actor...No, just kidding Williams' score is accurate for Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 hours ago, King Mark said: I was thinking that Helena's Theme in the first 1.07 of Prologue (which I think is unused in the film) is an alternate of To Morroco (2.06-end). it's has the same celeste intro and length yeah me too as I've said a few times. I got stuck playing the last minute and a half of prologue in a loop when I first listened to the OST. I've only just noticed it is also heard right in the middle of Centuries Join Hands BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Damien F 1,742 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Darth Mulder said: I want a Giacchino score for the new Indy...with youthful spirit for octogenarian leading actor...No, just kidding Williams' score is accurate for Ford. Gia's butchering of the force theme in the Trust Goes Both Ways track of Rogue One should disqualify him from ever using JW's themes again. It sounds as bad as a CD skipping. Holko, Tydirium, Courtney Sees Ghosts and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince 34 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I'm quite fond of the score overall but is anyone else having trouble appreciating the slower version of the Raider's March that Williams employs in New York, 1969? I guess it was his way of acknowledging the character's advanced age but it doesn't quite work for me. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Damien F 1,742 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 I think it is fine. We already have a million recordings of the raiders march so a little variation here is fine, especially as it does probably relate to Indy's twilight years. Tydirium, Vince and Taikomochi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handz 39 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 21 hours ago, Damien F said: Yes, that worked out well in Solo with John Powell working on Williams' themes. But if I had a choice between some other composer adapting Williams' themes or Williams writing the whole score, I'd always choose the latter. I am sorry. But I like some Powells music but most sounds like how to train your dragon. Cant stand the percussion driven tracks (lazy) and use of high almost folk flute flourishes and guitar (or what it is) in Solo. He can do beautiful music - Landos closet is amazing love theme, absolutely stunning but then he always return to his HTTYD style 😑 Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 515 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, handz said: stunning but then he always return to his HTTYD style 😑 Which is great! Courtney Sees Ghosts, handz and A. A. Ron 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jilal 569 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 Battle of Syracuse is such a cool track. Some things I really like: the ominous opening chord, the TLW-ish thumping motif and its orchestration (I think I'm hearing a synthesized prepared piano?), the many tritones, the wild chromaticism at 0:37 (which kinda reminds me of Howard Shore's The Doors of Durin) and in particular 1:16–1:30, which is one of my favorite bits of the OST. Brando, Romão, Taikomochi and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,274 Posted June 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2023 Battle of Syracuse really is a great little gem. It's the closest Williams has ever gotten to scoring a swords and sandals epic. I do seem to hear some traces of Alex North, Tiomkin and maybe even Cordell in there. I love it Vince, Damien F, BrotherSound and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, Romão said: Battle of Syracuse really is a great little gem. It's the closest Williams has ever gotten to scoring a swords and sandals epic. I do seem to hear some traces of Alex North, Tiomkin and maybe even Cordell in there. I love it Now that you mention Alex North, I realize it vaguely reminds me of Leonard Rosenman's music for the ape soldiers' marching in Beneath the Planet of the Apes as well, but apart from the thumping motif and the synthesized prepared piano there appears to be little resemblance. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 5 hours ago, Michael G. said: Archimedes' theme is my new favorite Indy mystery theme! I love how it is featured in the prologue, it really deserves it's own concert suite! Too bad there is so little of it in the actual film! I’d venture 4:08 to end of Prolog IS the concert suite of Archimedes’ Theme. It has a relatively clean beginning & a clean ending obviously. As to why there is little of his theme in the film - well that is because - Spoiler there’s little of him in the film. His theme only shows up when they visit his tomb and then when we actually see him during the climax. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Maybe there will be an additional expanded album with an additional concert suite or two? Maybe ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 24 minutes ago, TolkienSS said: Maybe there will be an additional expanded album with an additional concert suite or two? Maybe ... Expanded albums very rarely, if ever, contain additional concert suites. The whole point of those is to include them in the OST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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