John Williams receives 54th Oscar nomination for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny!

[Toillion 215]

3 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I think the negativity is people being (a) honest, and (b) much worse taste in film music than JWFanners have.

 

fixed it.

[BB-8 3,478]

26 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

 

Some salt for y’all to enjoy

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

3 hours ago, phbart said:

The cool thing is that, even at 91, he'll probably attend the ceremony as he always does, even knowing he's not going to win.

 

By the time he attends the ceremony, he'll be 92 years of age.

[p0llux 398]

Very nice! However, my dream of seeing John Williams and Joe Hisaishi on the same ballot for the first and last time comes to a crashing end.

[Chewy 2,391]

1 hour ago, Taikomochi said:

 

Some salt for y’all to enjoy

 

These are the same people who thought the TFA score was "not memorable" when it came out, but now they praise it.

[Bellosh 3,419]

those redditors absolutely call cues 'songs'.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

6 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

These are the same people who didn't like the TFA score when it came out, but now they praise it.

Their previous opinions will be contorted to serve whatever their current argument is. All they know is they loved Spiderverse and want it to get more things. 

[mrbellamy 6,287]

JWFan is obviously biased but calling Reddit "more objective" is laughable. I think there's probably some autopilot factor in the voting but I'm certain the Academy composers could explain why they voted for Dial of Destiny better than r/movies could why he didn't deserve it. 

 

It's a double-edged sword because yes, Williams does get nominated for almost anything, but it also doesn't really happen with many other people. There are only a handful of figures who are that beloved and respected by their peers that they really will get singled out even if the movie around them isn't great. I know a lot of people think Williams is overrated, or Meryl Streep. I'm sure even some fashionistas have a bizarre axe to grind against Edith Head. But you do kinda have to have a certain something that can overlap skilled craftspeople with different tastes and fixations about their art, and Williams does have that. 

 

I think implying he gets nominated year after year after year just off his greatest hits reputation is the same fallacy as when people assume somebody who just died is about to sweep awards season. It's very rare. It's a lot of people voting, the work does need to have something to it. What else actually is out there like "Helena's Theme" right now? I suppose somebody could argue "Well if it wasn't by John Williams nobody would care" but I think if Michael Giacchino had written it, Reddit would be way more likely to cream their jeans over it and screaming that he equalled John Williams's Indy scores. While I think the more open-minded JWFanners among us would still be impressed with it, but would push back against the idea that it's as good as Williams's best work....which is how we mostly feel about it now. 

 

Now whether Giacchino would have gotten the Oscar nomination in a parallel universe where he wrote Williams's Dial of Destiny score, I don't think so. But I think there'd be perfectly reasonable arguing he'd have deserved it. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

14 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

JWFan is obviously biased but calling Reddit "more objective" is laughable

 

r/movies is basically:

 

DAE THINK *insert absolute classic movie* IS UNDERRATED?!?!??!?! 

 

trash sub.  but most popular ones are.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

29 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Now whether Giacchino would have gotten the Oscar nomination in a parallel universe where he wrote Williams's Dial of Destiny score, I don't think so. But I think perfectly reasonable people would be arguing he'd have deserved it. 

 

He wouldn't, and in my mind that signals something a bit wrong with the process. The oscars don't recognise scores from popcorn action movies that much. LotR had the combination of a great score and films that are critically and popularly acclaimed. Most other franchises or adventure/fantasy scores that come to mind are either for more serious films or are by Williams. It didn't mean they were all great scores - it just meant that it's fashionable to give him a nod because of the great work he's done before.

 

A world where McCreary doesn't get nominated for RoP but Williams does for Indy 5, is a world where it's not the work you did that year, it's who you are.

 

Put another way - if you give Williams an oscar for DoD, you then immediately hand Powell three oscars for the HTTYD trilogy 

[Damien F 1,742]

His nomination was a surprise to me and therefore I didn't expect him to be nominated. A first nomination for a younger composer would mean more and be more consequential to their career than the 54th one for Williams. But that doesn't mean I'm still pleased to see him nominated and recognised by his peers.

 

I think the scoring of the whole Airport / Syracuse part of the movie justifies the nomination by itself, and I'm trying to think of that objectively and not as a massive JW fan. One of the comments from those Reddit screenshots is claiming there's no new decent music in DoD. If they can't recognise the quality of those tracks, I think they either didn't pay attention or JW's modern style of scoring simply isn't to their taste.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

2 hours ago, Chewy said:

 

These are the same people who thought the TFA score was "not memorable" when it came out, but now they praise it.

I'd imagine most of them were actually kids at the time considering TFA came out 8 years ago and most people stanning for Spider Verse would be 20 at most .  So a slightly different demographic 

[Jay 37,369]

3 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

most people stanning for Spider Verse would be 20 at most

 

I don't know about that

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

6 minutes ago, Damien F said:

His nomination was a surprise to me and therefore I didn't expect him to be nominated.

 

You don't say…

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

I don't know about that

That isn't to say adults wouldn't like it but I imagine a good portion of those people are teenagers 

[Bellosh 3,419]

I'm just glad I have a reason to tune into the Oscars this year.

 

Actually wait...I've only ever tuned in because of JW.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

I wonder ir Anne-Sophie will perform Helena's Theme at the ceremony.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

CONGRATS MAESTRO! ❤️ pic.twitter.com/Hiv1am57kL

— Mangold (@mang0ld) January 23, 2024

[Edmilson 7,466]

Steven Price = 1 nomination, 1 win = 100%

Michael Giacchino = 2 nominations, 1 win = 50%

John Williams = 54 nominations, 5 wins = 9.26%

 

Does that mean that Price > Giacchino > Williams? 

 

I'm just kidding, don't kill me please

[Toillion 215]

6 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Steven Price = 1 nomination, 1 win = 100%

Michael Giacchino = 2 nominations, 1 win = 50%

John Williams = 54 nominations, 5 wins = 9.26%

 

Does that mean that Price > Giacchino > Williams? 

 

I'm just kidding, don't kill me please

 

Now do number of films composed total to number of nominations! 

[mrbellamy 6,287]

That is actually an interesting question lol, it's gotta be close to 50%

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

27 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I'm just kidding, don't kill me please

 

If that happened it would probably be because of your new profile pic.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

25 minutes ago, Toillion said:

Now do number of films composed total to number of nominations! 

 

22 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

That is actually an interesting question lol, it's gotta be close to 50%

 

If I didn't miscount while scrolling through the filmography, Williams has scored 114 films. (Another interesting question actually: Is this the most reliable source to get the films he actually composed music for, unlike also all kinds of spinoffs and sequels and promo videos using his music, like on IMDb? Is there a source that actually provides this list as raw data?)

 

54 nominations out of 114 films equals 47.37%.

 

Of course, he wasn't nominated for 54 different films; a few of those nominations were for the same film (song & score). Should be pretty close though.

 

 

Thinking about this a bit more, the first time Williams was nominated was in 1968 for was Valley of the Dolls from 1967. He did two other films that same year (Fitzwilly and A Guide for the Married Man). Not knowing the exact release or award dates, I'll just assume that those would have been eligible for the same Oscars.

 

That still leaves 17 films from the years before his first nomination, meaning that Williams got nominations for 55.67% of the 97 films he has scored since (including) the year he was first nominated.

[Jay 37,369]

9 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

If I didn't miscount while scrolling through the filmography, Williams has scored 114 films. (Another interesting question actually: Is this the most reliable source to get the films he actually composed music for, unlike also all kinds of spinoffs and sequels and promo videos using his music, like on IMDb? Is there a source that actually provides this list as raw data?)

 

This?

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/35540-2023-john-williams-official-top-10-film-scores-your-individual-lists/&do=findComment&comment=1976599

[Pieter Boelen 740]

As much as I love Williams, Dial left me quite disappointed.

Oddly, for once, I like the movie better than the score.

 

Dial definitely deserved an Oscar nomination for Best Special Effects though!

That opening scene is really something else.

 

That said, I reckon Williams should continue doing movies for another six years.

He needs to outdo that embarrassing record of Walt Disney's.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 minute ago, Pieter Boelen said:

Oddly, for once, I like the movie better than the score.

 

It's a very good film!

 

1 minute ago, Pieter Boelen said:

That opening scene is really something else.

 

You mean the entire prologue?

 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's a very good film!

I do believe so, yes.

Much better than Skull, at least.

I won't put it on the same level as the first three, but it's a much better entry than I feared.

 

4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You mean the entire prologue?

Yep.

Exactly that.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

4 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

I won't put it on the same level as the first three, but it's a much better entry than I feared.

 

Exactly!

 

4 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

Yep.

Exactly that.

 

Yeah, I enjoyed the entire prologue a lot.

[Edmilson 7,466]

25 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

didn't miscount while scrolling through the filmography, Williams has scored 114 films. (Another interesting question actually: Is this the most reliable source to get the films he actually composed music for, unlike also all kinds of spinoffs and sequels and promo videos using his music, like on IMDb? Is there a source that actually provides this list as raw data?)

 

54 nominations out of 114 films equals 47.37

 

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

This?

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/35540-2023-john-williams-official-top-10-film-scores-your-individual-lists/&do=findComment&comment=1976599

Now we'd have to check which of these movies are actually elligible for the Oscars, since some of them are from TV, like Heidi and Jane Eyre for instance.

 

Then, we'd discount which of his 54 nominations were for the same movie (song and score) and exclude one of them.

 

In both cases, I don't think there are many of them, and the final number shouldn't be too different from 47% anyway.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

This?

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/35540-2023-john-williams-official-top-10-film-scores-your-individual-lists/&do=findComment&comment=1976599

 

That's three less than I counted (twice) in the filmography, so someone could check which three are excluded (and why), supposing the rest is a match. Someone, because I'm too lazy.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, I enjoyed the entire prologue a lot.

I just wished there could've been more archaeology to it...

Not too big on war movies myself.

But for what it was, it was pretty darn cool.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

6 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

I just wished there could've been more archaeology to it...

Not too big on war movies myself.

But for what it was, it was pretty darn cool.

 

I consider it more in the genre of cat-and-mouse hunt, which is a favourite of mine.

[pete 907]

9 hours ago, JTW said:

Why is it cool? Except for seeing him wearing a tux again, losing again, for the 49th time, 30 years in a row. 

 

I'm sure Williams would and probably always does enjoy these events. A chance to spend time with friends, bump into collaborators and actors from his many previous films, the food is probably good. I can't imagine not having a great night. 

[Loopy 5]

I'm going to hope that this leads to Disney selling the CD again and ignore the likelihood.

[crumbs 14,317]

Plenty of salt on the subreddits, but plenty of love elsewhere for JW's nomination. Just to counter the negativity:

 

 

 

 

[Jay 37,369]

2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

That's three less than I counted (twice) in the filmography, so someone could check which three are excluded (and why), supposing the rest is a match. Someone, because I'm too lazy.

 

My list is accurate.

[Brando 1,864]

45 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Plenty of salt on the subreddits, but plenty of love elsewhere for JW's nomination. Just to counter the negativity:

 

 

 

 

To the first post, remove yourself from a nomination? Can they do that? 

[mrbellamy 6,287]

8 hours ago, Chewy said:

These are the same people who thought the TFA score was "not memorable" when it came out, but now they praise it.

 

I'm just glad that the default opinion is the music was one of the good things about the sequels. And that TFA isn't going very far back for a nomination Reddit doesn't consider lazy. Nobody's trying to disrespect JW's longevity here. 

 

I'm happy for him to collect Oscar nominations like Pokemon. They blur together, regardless. The legend of John Williams is epic scores for big blockbusters every decade with nonstop Oscar nominations til he's like 100 years old. He's never had a Diane Warren reputation where her version of this is getting nominated for the Flaming Hot Cheetos movie. John Williams nominated for Indiana Jones 5 is pretty typical at worst, it just slides in. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

10 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

I'm just glad that the default opinion is the music was one of the good things about the sequels. And that TFA isn't going very far back for a nomination Reddit doesn't consider lazy. Nobody's trying to disrespect JW's longevity here. 

 

I'm happy for him to collect Oscar nominations like Pokemon. They blur together, regardless. The legend of John Williams is epic scores for big blockbusters every decade with nonstop Oscar nominations til he's like 100 years old. He's never had a Diane Warren reputation where her version of this is getting nominated for the Flaming Hot Cheetos movie. John Williams nominated for Indiana Jones 5 is pretty typical at worst, it just slides in. 

I wish he scored the Hot Cheeto movie 

[Leitmotif 21]

Basically, I would say that Göransson deserves the award this year...

If we look at it as a kind of lifetime achievement award, or if we consider Williams' works between 1994 and 2024, and Göransson has already won an award and the musics of the other 3 nominees is not a masterpiece, then there is some chance. 
By itself, I think it deserves a nomination/award because of Helena's Theme, which is much more present in the entire score than the Raiders march.

[JTN 2,030]

And if Kathleen Kennedy had a beard and talent, she would be George Lucas. 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

15 hours ago, Toillion said:

I hate to see the negativity he is getting for being nominated though. Just imagine what people would say if he won. I think it's pretty dumb that people are mad that he has so many noms over the years. You don't just stop nominating someone because they already have a lot. He has so many because he's the GOAT and continues to be great!

I also don't get the negativity here. The Dial of Destiny score by Williams is just awesome. Nothing I heard in Göransson's score for Oppenheimer comes close musically. Williams is still at the top of the game. And I believe, that he has been nominated because in the academy - in opposition to large parts of this forum - there are people who see this and know what they are talking about.

 

He might not win, and it might not be his best score and the Oscars might be ridiculous, but I believe that Williams musically wrote the best and most mature score of the year and he deserves to win.

My view.

 

Sometimes hard to believe, that we are in a John Williams fan forum here. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

The Dial of Destiny score by Williams is just awesome

 

The entire film is very good!

[GerateWohl 4,370]

Question: In 20 years from now, what will still be heard in the classical concert halls in the world?

• A suite of Ludwig Göransson's Oppenheimer score

or

• Helena's Theme of John Williams?

 

[JTN 2,030]

@Jurassic SharkNow try to convince us that Barbie is a masterpiece.
 

 

 

2 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Question: A year from now, what will be heard in the classical concert halls in the world?

Fixed.

[crumbs 14,317]

42 minutes ago, JTW said:

And if Kathleen Kennedy had a beard and talent, she would be George Lucas. 

 

The Kathleen Kennedy bashing is so tired. Films produced by Kennedy have grossed $13.3 billion dollars worldwide. Financially she's the third most successful producer in history, behind only Kevin Feige (Marvel) and David Heyman (Harry Potter, Barbie).

 

If not for Kennedy, we likely never get a trilogy of new John Williams Star Wars scores, nor a theme for Solo, Obi-Wan, or a fifth Indiana Jones. She's also, along with husband Frank, one of Mike's biggest advocates when it comes to score expansions.

 

It's easy (and lazy) to make throwaway barbs about someone's apparent lack of talent, but the data doesn't back it up. If anything, it was Kennedy's lack of micro-managing filmmakers on the Star Wars sequels that led to the issues fans level squarely on her shoulders.

[JTN 2,030]

44 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Films produced by Kennedy have grossed $13.3 billion dollars worldwide.

If you were the producer of every Spielberg film and every film produced by Spielberg's production company, you would be successful too. Working for geniuses doesn't mean that you yourself are a genius.

 

44 minutes ago, crumbs said:

If not for Kennedy, we likely never get a trilogy of new John Williams Star Wars scores

Literally anyone with half a brain knows that John Williams is maybe the greatest value of Star Wars, and you would need to be a complete idiot not to hire him. I'm not saying that KK is stupid, I'm saying she lacks creative talent. She is a business woman, even she is aware of the obvious: Without John Williams, Star Wars is just another IP. And btw Frank Marshall's father was a film composer, so I think he is the one who understands Williams' importance better, and told her wife that she had to get John if she didn't want to fail miserably. 

 

44 minutes ago, crumbs said:

but the data doesn't back it up.

The data shows how Disney Star Wars is failing hard. Every subsequent film made appr. half the money at the box office as the previous one. Solo bombed. Star Wars got downgraded to streaming in the form of mediocre to bad, lackluster tv shows with abismal ratings. KK clearly has no idea how to manage Star Wars. Or Indiana Jones, for that matter. DoD was one of 2023's biggest flops, one of Disney's greatest bombs. Kennedy has driven George Lucas' legacy into the ground, and alienated most of the original paying customers/fanbase. There is no turning back. Even if she steps down and lets someone else run the company, the damage is done, and people are not coming back to a dead franchise. 

[Damien F 1,742]

I suppose from the point of view of the people on social media who hate the nomination for DoD, they probably only saw the movie once or twice, and maybe listened to the OST once. Most of JW's work post TFA has taken multiple listens for me to appreciate its greatness. I doubt those people have put in the same time.

 

It's also interesting to remember that a lot of reviews of the movie had praised the score, so I guess its nomination wasn't entirely from left field.

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

Didn't the Oscars stop being relevant 20 years ago? Who actually thinks they're an accurate measure of anything?

[Bespin 8,483]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Didn't the Oscars stop being relevant 20 years ago? Who actually thinks they're an accurate measure of anything?

 

The nominations are still accurate. The winners, well, it's a pat on the back by the business to the business, which once held greater significance, but still remains prestigious... but that's "political".