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While MM's E.T. expansion was great, we can only dream of how great the DD E.T. edition would have been:

"Oh man this piece pisses me off. Why did he micro-edit that part." --JWFANers

Spotify total users: ca. 600 mln Williams Dec 2023 listeners: 23,5 mln This is boosted by his arrangements of preexisting Christmas carrols, but exposure is exposure

Lucasfilm: *hires a foreign female actress younger than 40 for a proeminent role in the next chapter of their biggest franchises* John Williams:

Don't you EVER say that name!

All of that is true. But after all, watching a movie and me being bored (Dial of Destiny) or even feeling painfully embarassed (Rise of Skywalker) my picking on these little flaws is just trying to put my experience and my feelings into words. Sure, tastes are different. For example I rarely like a movie where fans of it describe their experience like "I could perfectly switch off my brain and then enjoy the movie". Nobody said that about Dial. But I remember such statements about Rise.

Both the Heidi/ Jane and the Hook Part I episodes are fantastic. I know I've expressed this before but if Mike Matessino had a podcast, I'd listen to him talk about this stuff for hours. I echo what others have already said, that hearing the behind the scenes stories on this latest episode was so great and fascinating. I'm surprised Spielberg told Leslie "no" when initially asked about the song demos. I'm so glad he did end up saying yes in the end. The whole story with Didier was really interesting, and highlights even more how lucky we all are that Mike exists and is doing what he does with such integrity. So much so that I'll see a score release that I'm not familiar with at all, but I see "Mike Matessino" mentioned and I want to instantly buy it because I know that the work done on it was done with care and attention to quality and detail. Fascinating to hear that there were boxes labeled "Hook" with a bunch of uncategorized stuff in them. Crazy how some of these items are stored. Someone needs to send Mike an Indiana Jones hat to wear when he digs through this stuff. It's also crazy that it took a year to get all the vocalists approvals and do fee negotiation. It must feel great for Hook to have finally come out, for all those who were involved in working on it. As always, appreciated all the questions and comments from @TownerFan and @mahler3. Looking forward to Part II of the Hook discussion.

At the appreciation thread they're drinking the blood of Kali. Known to cause delusions and irrational behaviour.

You must...choose wisely.

Everything has a tipping point, and what will "ruin" a film for some people isn't that important to others. For example, of all my problems with Dial of Destiny, the occasional dodgy de-ageing is not among them. I just accept that there are limitations to the technology and get over it. Others complain about bad CGI (or CGI at all) ceaselessly in this film, or film in general, and it ruins the experience for them. Fair enough, to each their own, it really doesn't bother me. Story and in particular character is what matters most to me, and can make or break a film. As @Chen G. said, what matters most to me is how the film made me feel when I finish watching it, and not whether I had a nitpick with some of its parts. One bad bit generally won't ruin a film I otherwise like (though obviously enough of them certainly can.) I get your point, but for me it's the opposite. I'm less likely to give a new instalment in a franchise I grew up loving a pass, precisely because I grew up loving it. I know what good Star Wars and Indiana Jones looks like, and I'm not going to pretend I'm being fed filet mignon when I know they're trying to give me dog food. At the same time, I don't let bad Star Wars or Indiana Jones "ruin my childhood". I just ignore the stuff I don't like and that's that. I don't build my identity around the movies I watch.

"I love this song!" - most of them, probably

I have listened to the set twice through now on headphones, and now mid-way through on my stereo speakers. This is such a beautiful, fantastic, amazing release! I was shocked to see it on LLL announcement. After so many years of people here chanting 'give us the hook' and it not happening for a while, I kind of put it out of my mind and half forgot about it. And to know it has been in process since 2016???? That's nuts, and it must have been hard for @Jay to keep a straight face each time hopes of the MM Hook being released came up. I love the rich colors in the artwork and booklet, all beautifully done. Really loved the Amistad-style liner notes detailing the alternates. I read that twice back to back to make sure I had it all straight. But...I listened once through without reading anything, and I'm glad I did!!! It occurred to me, my first listen through this Ultimate Edition, was my last listen prior to hearing the songs....and once I heard the songs, the score took on a new life/ new meaning. From my 2nd listen onward, I now cannot go back to hearing those specific melodies without having the songs and some of their lyrics and meanings in mind! So this release is really transformative in that way. It was really cool, because listening a 2nd time, was like a new experience after hearing Disc 3. That's really unique, I can't imagine any other release that gave me that experience! Disc 3 is super cool in that it is its own self-contained alternate-world presentation of the score but with songs incorporated. Really amazing that it ended up that way rather than say, a list of alternates and then like a section of "Songs" all together. Much much more meaningful having them incorporated into a playlist of the other music like this. I LOVE low below. What a cool, super-pirate-y fun sequence! I would have actually liked it if that whole sequence was finalized and made it into the film. Remember when someone posted a picture of some Low Below sheet music on the forums and I posted a goofy clip of me playing a snippet of the melody on piano? I'm glad to see I guessed the approximate tempo right haha. Although funny story, my wife walked into the room right at the "hook-ers" lyrics blasted through my speakers and gave me a "what did I just hear?" look. "It's Hook dear, it's fine it's a kids movie!" I said. I've always loved the Believe and Mothers theme (although I used to call the latter Tootles' Theme and had no name for the former). Hearing their songs, I really love Believe as a song and now it makes sense where the theme is used in the film. I liked the performance of Mothers less, but I am guessing the singer is emulating the sound of a child singing the song, so it makes sense. Childhood is a lovely song too, really quite beautiful and wonderful voice of Bobbi Page. I super love Stick With Me, it's such a perfect slithery bad-guy-trying-to-seduce type of song. I always imagined this melody was a song, and imagined how it might be, and this is exactly along the lines I was thinking. Really fun. The sound quality is wonderful and it was a moving experience to listen to all this music. Too many wonderful moments to mention (I might make another post later of some of my favorite parts), but there are two moments in particular that made me smile and I got lost in the music. 1), the moment of Peter flying in Peter Remembers (The Flying Sequence) at 6:05. I've heard this many times before but getting to it after listening to the 1Hr 30Min of score prior, it's a wonderful arrival point in the score. The orchestra has such a great energy on this cue and I can almost 'feel' the excitement. 2), the fanfare in The Sword Fight and The End Of Hook starting around 5:43 and culminating in that bright, triumphant chord at 5:52 with the major7th in there is a glorious moment. Oh, I'll add a third, the very end, last statement of the Mothers theme in Farewell Neverland (9:14 or so). Hearing the melody emanate from the middle range cellos/horns, violins playing the sparkling patterns, and then the ww/picc run that soars up and down a few times, always gives me goosebumps. A truly magical and momentous release this is. Thank you so much for all of the time and work put into it, Mike Matessino, @Jay, @John Takis, Jim Titus, and everyone else involved.

Never wanted to be an ant so bad in my life back in 2008 🤤🤤😩😩

Don't be silly. They already have. Nick

Wait, are they already shooting Indy 6 through 8? Karol

I think that you have put too much thought into my statement. I don’t sit with an excel sheet while watching movies. It’s a gut feeling. But if my gut constantly tells me, “that’s unnatural - that’s illogical - that’s weird”, and then at the end my brain points out unresolved events abd starts going “but what happened to x - and what happened to y”, then It’s a bad movie. There’s no calculus. Of course, the “gut feeling” all depends on the movie. I can watch Sharknado and it’s obviously bad, but I don’t give Indiana Jones the same leeway.

See, to me, I go to a movie to feel like I got something out of it. To me, art appreciation is not calculus: its not about a movie being consistently good, its about a movie having enough high-points that gave me something that I feel was worthwhile sitting through the movie for.

It's a good question. Taking both his film and television music into account, there is no whole work that predates THE PATRIOT. However, if you look at small, individual sequences, you might find some. On at least three occasions - GIDGET GOES TO ROME, the documentary INSIDE THE MOVIE KINGDOM and DIAL OF DESTINY - does he tap into old Roman music tropes for sequences depicting that time period. Also, if count a bit from the "Mr. DNA" animated sequence in JURASSIC PARK, you could argue he scores a sequence set 65 million years ago.

It’s not even that. Imagine if it were Short Round (who grew up on the streets, right?) in the Helena role: suddenly the relationship with Indy would have a lot more gravitas. We would understand why he was so mercenary. The film could grapple with Indy abdicating any responsibility to Short Round, after we saw what their relationship was like in ToD? That’s already canon because there’s no mention of him in any of the other films; they forgot about the character just like Indy apparently did. So it would really fit with what they tried to set up with the Helena flashback. The whole movie, imagine the great banter between those two we could have had. Imagine the potential for character development and exploration of their relationship. But most of all: imagine Short Round having that argument with Indy in Syracuse! Someone who had real history and established chemistry with him? Someone who already got through to him, “snapped him out of it” once before, so to speak? Yeah, I didn’t hate Helena aside from the punch… but even without the punch, Short Round would have fit the role they made for her soo much better. And also Indy could have left him his hat at the end. Yavar

Yes. 100%. Kung Fu was just becoming popular around this era. Shorty could’ve kicked so much Nazi ass. To me, this is the biggest missed opportunity. So much so that they should’ve done reshoots and broken the film into two parts the moment Ke Huy Quan gave his Oscar acceptance speech.

Keeping in mind that some films include scenes across different time periods, and Temple Doom should be watched AFTER Raiders, I don't care WHAT the on-screen date says, this is how you'd do it: 1839 - Amistad 1865 - Lincoln 1918 - War Horse 1930s - The Color Purple 1936 - Raiders of the Lost Ark 1935 - Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom 1938 - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade 1941 - 1941 1941 - Empire of the Sun 1943 - Amazing Stories: The Mission 1944 - Schindler's List 1944 - Saving Private Ryan 1940s/50s - Tintin 1957 - Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 1957 - West Side Story 1960 - Bridge of Spies 1962 - The Fabelmans 1969 - Catch Me If You Can 1971 - Duel 1971 - The Post 1972 - Munich 1973 - The Sugarland Express 1975 - Jaws 1977 - Close Encounters 1981 - E.T. 1982 - Poltergeist (if you count it) 1982 - The BFG 1985 - Twilight Zone: The Movie (if you count it) 1985 - Amazing Stories: Ghost Train 1989 - Always 1991 - Hook 1993 - Jurassic Park 1997 - The Lost World 2004 - The Terminal 2005 - War of the Worlds 2045 - Ready Player One 2054 - Minority Report 2100s - A.I.

Sure. I'd say that pretty much every film we debate on here is better than 99.9%+ of all the films ever made. That goes without saying. In the grand scheme of things, most movies, in fact almost all of them, are terrible. Most of the ones we discuss just aren't that bad. But we nitpick certain films because we care about them, or at least their franchise family. Or because we went in with great expectations. And I daresay, even among critics who RT's decide has given a positive rating to a particular film (thus ultimately contributing to a "Fresh" score), those critics would find many of the same flaws we do. So what RT decides is a positive review for a film doesn't mean that a critic, for example, didn't have a problem with DoD's de-ageing, or its ending, or Helena, or the tone of the film, or any of the other issues people are complaining about here. For example, just doing a quick glance, here are some excerpts from a handful of reviews of DoD I picked randomly by "Top Critics" RT's consider to be "fresh": And, again, those are reviews RT's deemed "Fresh". So I actually think the critiques of the film in these parts have been for the most part pretty well reasoned, and most people have been good about saying why they don't like the film. That is to say, I don't think the criticism has been unfair.

I can’t say enough about this soundtrack. It is fantastic. I actually just deleted my previous Hook Expanded Release from 2012. This one blows that one out of the water. The production is so well done. Hearing the music finally properly presented is the absolute best. To me it is John William’s best score. I also love so many others as well. Home Alone 1&2, His Harry Potter scores, Star Wars and Jurassic Park, just to name a few. I’m so glad I preordered this before it was released. It is a masterpiece. Still my favorite piece of music is the entire Ultimate War battle music including “Death of Rufio” and “Sword fight and the end of Hook”. I can’t get enough of it.

True but I don't think that the quality of an assembly really has any relevance towards whether to blind buy a score. That should have more to do with the film/composer/genre etc.

I did too, after heavily suspecting there weren't any... Also: Reordering the last sequence to put the chase music after the glorious ending - finally how Williams really intended it!

Whatever it is, they're drinking a lot more over on the appreciation thread.

This is a disenchantment thread.

Ok I admit, I searched for the tracks with a #.

Soon, it will be taken over by @Mattris and it will be doomed (as if it's not already).

Like how I championed 'Jaws: The Revenge' as a 12-year-old cuz I loved 'Jaws'. lol It sets our expectations higher, which is why we might be unduly critical... But even if I put that aside, it's as another member here said: It's not just a bad 'Indiana Jones' movie, it's a bad movie, period. And aside from the scene-by-scene criticisms, the overwhelming problem I had was with the depressing tone of the film. It wasn't what I expected or wanted out of an 'Indiana Jones' movie. So if I'm just judging by how it made me feel as I exited the theatre, like @Chen G. asks, well I was left feeling dejected, and with regret at having bought a ticket for a second viewing in advance. I suppose @Jurassic Shark will tell me to "lighten up". 'Rise of Skywalker' is a guilty pleasure, I'll admit. It did nothing for 'Star Wars', but I can think of more painful ways to spend 2 hours. (You guessed it! 'Dial of Destiny'!)

Weird, because about 1200 pages were written about Frodo, Sam, Pippin, Merry, Boromir, Faramir, Gandalf, Aragorn, and the duo of Legolas and Gimli, all of whom are bringing more to the table for me than Thorin, and are better represented in their films. The fact that Thorin’s apparent motivation was left on the cutting room floor makes my case for me. There’s a better version of these movies somewhere.

JW: Daisy baby, I would let you conduct Rey’s Theme, but I’ve already promised Gustavo.

I think IF somebody were somehow to put stupid amounts money into that, it'd be smarter to turn it towards somehow convincing the AFM to change the date to a sliding one and enable every other post-July 2005 score to be expanded too.

I've had better girlfriends, but they're all dead.

This dude is a poster (man)child for obscurantism. It's purple criticism, and I will never watch another one of his videos. As for your first point, that is perilously close to death of the author criticism. There is nothing that cannot have meaning for the viewer, but to have a point requires intent on the part of the creator and context on the part of the viewer. I will say again, that Indiana Jones has no point, unless its point is to be really fucking fun.

JW: And then Steven said... DR: I know....

They’re all bad. I think the defenders of these movies give them a pass due to the franchise or brand they belong to. They have too much invested in them to accept any flaws. It becomes a self image problem (but of course that is the wrong conclusion). “If this thing that I grew up with, identify with, have formed my identity around, have publicly defended, spent time and money on - is suddenly bad, I refuse to accept this ‘new’ reality and will blindly defend it” - even though it’s painfully obvious for everybody around. It’s the same reason (to some extent) that women in an abusive relationship don’t leave their men. Like all “bad” movies they are bound to have have some redeeming features. The music. The set design. The props. A certain actor. A groundbreaking special effect. But one swallow does not a summer make. I think it’s easy to look back at a bad movie and confuse one or more of these redeeming features with the movie actually being ok/good and think, “since it had X, it was not bad”. But this is a false logic. It’s self justification with a bias because we also want to like these movies. But sure, we all have different definitions of good/bad, no one can deny that. And we can endlessly discuss the nuances of how bad it was by comparing a bad movie with other bad movies - which one was slightly worse or which one was slightly better - but it’s not enough that a movie is “relatively ok”. A movie is a sum of all its parts - and a bad movie with some redeeming features is still a bad movie. Right! I’d forgotten about that. Such an unnecessarily cruel movie! And you’re absolutely right, the logic that the characters use around these events, so unnatural. I think the reason I dislike this movie boils down to two things: most things happening in this movie feels either pointless or unnatural, and one can only suspend one’s disbelief for so many things.

Don’t forget, if you want to watch it live, it’s tonight at 8 EST. If you can’t watch it live, it should be available shortly afterwards as a regular video.

Wait until Rey's apprentice is played by another cute white British brunette and John Williams will write so much music they'll have to turn it into another trilogy.

Go slow. Peel at an angle. Don’t lift straight up.

This further highlights Mike's attention to detail and work ethic, but the mindset of buying literally anything with his name on it is going a bit far into fanboy territory. He might produce the best possible restoration of a score but if you don't like that score to begin with, a perfect expansion isn't going to change that.

I personally believe the "Dragon Sickness" is like the love potion in Tristan: it may well have been cold tea. All the traits that are characteristic of Thorin under the scourage of the "sickness" are incipit in his personality from the outset: isolationism, neuroticism, obstinance, you name it, and we see them intensify the closer he gets to achieving his goal. Its his resolve to see the quest fullfilled - no matter what - that gradually sends him spiraling. As for the thing that actually makes him snap...when do we first see Thorin (well, after the credits) in The Battle of the Five Armies? We see him in the treasure hoard, and what is he muttering? "Gold beyond measure. Beyond sorrow and grief." Then he sees Fili and Kili and he's very visibly taken aback. Why? There's a deleted scene of Thorin - still in Laketown garb - that appeared in the trailer: "Everything I did, I did for them." In other words, he thinks that Fili and Kili - who we've learned not long prior are his heirs - had died in the attack on Laketown. So do the other Dwarves, judging by Ori's surprised "You're alive!" This grief is exacerbated by two factors: one, we know Dis made Kili swear he'd "come back to her" and we can assume she made Fili (whose visibly very protective of Kili) and Thorin likewise swear to bring him (and themselves) back safely; AND Thorin must surely think its his fault for leaving them in Laketown AND unleashing Smaug upon the town: "Revenge?" Smaug bellows: "I will show you revenge!" So its his grief that takes him over the edge, and he takes comfort in the one single heirloom he has left: his grandfather's gold. And, for all his flaws, Thorin is an exceptionally aspirational and moving character, I find. In the prologue alone, he shows moral fiber (he visibly disapproves of the stunt Thror pulls on Thranduil), cleverness (being the first to notice the approaching dragon), self-sacrifical bravery (saving Balin, Thror AND Thrain at great risk to himself), leadership (rallying the defenses from the front line and then leading the exodus). He goes on to show valiance in battle at Moria, he takes menial labours to provide for his people, and we're told he had "built a new life for us in the blue mountains." He's a profoundly noble character. There are very, very few characters in any of these films, about whose psyche you can write so much.

So Didier Deutsch is basically saying: "I really don't grasp what fascinates you about this Mike Matessino. He concocts these box sets that, pardon my French, are quite unbearable, with each song replayed at least three times on each of the CDs (I wonder who takes pleasure listening to that!). It's truly nonsensical, if you ask me. And then, this box set must have cost a fortune to produce—have you pondered the plethora of Julia Roberts pictures plastered everywhere? Utterly distasteful and excessively drawn out, I must say!"

Since Marion was essentially fan-serviced in (aka an off screen phone call fixed Indy's entire arc)....maybe a better story/movie could have been Indy and Helena slowly respecting each other and working with each other. The movie does that horribly imo. No need for Teddy, just make this a really good Indy and Helena story. And at the end he can leave Syracuse on his own accord and he realizes he does have someone in his life who is basically family...and an adventuring sidekick. Best of both worlds. I still think most people who were emotional with the ending of this film with Marion and Indy were not feeling the emotions of them getting back together, but the fact this would be the last time we'd see these characters on screen.

Such a weird thing to put in the movie. He should have straight up died there. Not only was DoD a bad Indy movie, it was also a bad movie. It is beyond me how that movie has an appreciation thread here on the forum. Denial much? If this hadn’t been an Indiana Jones adventure, people would’ve hated this. Now it “kind of” gets a pass (but not really). Even die hard Indy fans confess that it’s mediocre at best. And that’s ok. The movie is a product of many hands, countless meetings and business decisions, and the franchise is not an infallible man, but just that: a product made to be consumed and for whatever reason the creators messed up the recepie. Also, a bad entry to the franchise doesn’t take away any of the magic from the previous films.

Thanks. I threw up in my mouth.

He's just a mercenary that serves as an informant for Azog in the opening scene in Bree. Pretty cool scene.