Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!

[Edmilson 7,466]

20 minutes ago, Signals said:

That brings up an interesting question, what historical figures has he scored?

 

Lincoln

Nixon (too recent?)

JFK?

Adams?

 

Oskar Schindler may qualify as well. And wasn't Mel Gibson's character in The Patriot based on a real figure from the American Independence War?

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

2 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Here's my (way too early) ranking of all the cues.

 

1. To Athens

2. To Morocco

3. Helena's Theme (look this should probably technically be number 1, but as the suite, I probably won't listen to it as much on it's own as some other cues)

4. Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

5. The Airport

6. Battle of Syracuse

7. Centuries Join Hands

8. New York, 1969 (simply cause the raiders march)

9. Voller Returns

10. Germany, 1944 (if it didn't have the coda at the end it'd probably be lower)

11. Tuk Tuk in Tangiers

12. The Grafikos

13. Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique

14. Archimedes' Tomb

15. Perils of the Deep

16. Water Ballet

17. Polybius Cipher

To Athens is starting to rank higher on more listens.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I've slightly lost the 'hey, this is good!' factor I got when I first heard it. I think I was mostly just pleased that this score doesn't have the massive problem KotCS has in its mid section.

 

I also think that generally, the action here is nowhere near as good as Williams used to do. He's got some very fun orchestration and melody in places, but the structure, build-ups and general excitement I get from (some random ones) Quidditch, Third Year or T-Rex Rescue just aren't here and it strongly feels to me like after the Airport/Syracuse cues, it just sort of stops without any proper resolution.

 

Tuk Tuk does have the nice action treatment of Helena's theme, but when it's not doing that it's just typical Williams zylophone and racing strings. There's absolutely zero new or unexpected going on here.

 

I guess I'm concluding that overall this is a fine job and has a sprinkling of moments where he came up with something really nice, but the man's 90 and is understandably using reliable, but very much trodden techniques for the most part.

[Damien F 1,742]

7 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I've slightly lost the 'hey, this is good!' factor I got when I first heard it. I think I was mostly just pleased that this score doesn't have the massive problem KotCS has in its mid section.

 

I also think that generally, the action here is nowhere near as good as Williams used to do. He's got some very fun orchestration and melody in places, but the structure, build-ups and general excitement I get from (some random ones) Quidditch, Third Year or T-Rex Rescue just aren't here and it strongly feels to me like after the Airport/Syracuse cues, it just sort of stops without any proper resolution.

 

Tuk Tuk does have the nice action treatment of Helena's theme, but when it's not doing that it's just typical Williams zylophone and racing strings. There's absolutely zero new or unexpected going on here.

 

I guess I'm concluding that overall this is a fine job and has a sprinkling of moments where he came up with something really nice, but the man's 90 and is understandably using reliable, but very much trodden techniques for the most part.

 

I know it was just a random example but T-Rex Rescue is one of the best action cues written in the history of cinema so it probably isn't a fair comparison.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I'm  so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. 

From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc..  Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me.

[Damien F 1,742]

It is OK to dislike or be disappointed by a new JW score.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Oh thank you for defending. You are a good person. I was seriously worried.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

I'll take up drinking. 

[Faleel 5,356]

Music doesn't run on an achievement system.

[Knight of Ren 789]

After my first proper listen I must say that I started to pick up on more thematic connections, and there are some great tracks that didn't stood out to me that much in the movie, probably because they were mixed a bit low.

 

The best parts are when Williams dissects Helena's theme in action mode, especially in tracks like The Airport, but I'm starting to like more and more the two ideas associated with Archimedes and the Dial, both appearing in the last couple of minutes of the Prologue. I also like how that track serves as a sort of overture presenting all the main new ideas for the movie, even if I haven't been able yet to identify all the evil / nazi themes, as they tend to bleed into each other a bit.

 

I will definitely give it many more listens, and it works great as a listening experience, and from what I can recall from watching the movie, nothing really that important is missing, apart from some action cues being longer, and some thematic statements from early in the movie being also missing.

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

1 hour ago, Joni Wiljami said:

I'm  so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. 

From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc..  Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me.

While doing the Oscar run for The Fabelmans, he talked about Spielberg's dad and how he lived to be 100. Said he's got 10 more years and Spielberg is hard to say no to.

We'll get a new Williams score in a year or two. Depends on whether or not he gets that Bond movie.

[Bellosh 3,419]

4 minutes ago, Courtney said:

While doing the Oscar run

 

speaking of which....I could genuinely see the academy liking Helena's Theme so much that DoD wins best score.

 

What a trip that would be!  I mean shit, if ALL the sequel trilogy movies can be nominated, then DoD can too!

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

2 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

speaking of which....I could genuinely see the academy liking Helena's Theme so much that DoD wins best score.

 

What a trip that would be!  I mean shit, if ALL the sequel trilogy movies can be nominated, then DoD can too!

Because it's a summer release, it's a lot easier to spread awareness for throughout the campaign trail instead of coming near the end like the Sequel scores.

If all else fails, John will probably get another Best Instrumental Composition Grammy.

[Bellosh 3,419]

me explaining to the Academy that 'Helena's Theme' is actually a song so it can win best original song

 

[Damien F 1,742]

3 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

me explaining to the Academy that 'Helena's Theme' is actually a song so it can win best original song

 

It is listed under Songs on Spotify. What more evidence do they need!

 

[DangerMotif 1,038]

20 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

 

SOME TIMESTAMPS - 

 

 Nazi Theme 1
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:16 - 3:27

 

 

Germany, 1944 3:26 - 3:36

 

 

 

Nazi Theme 2 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 1:55 - 2:29

 

 

Voller Returns 2:17 - 2:35

 

 

 

Nazi Theme 3

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 1:07 - 1:41

 

 

 

The Airport 1:05 - 1:25

 

 

 

Voller Theme 1
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Voller Returns 0:41 - 1:14

 

 

Germany, 1944 2:41 - 2:59

 

 

 

 Archimedes Theme 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 4:08 - end (possible concert rendition)

 

 

Archimedes' Tomb 1:13 - 1:46

 

 

 

Dial Of Destiny Theme 1

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:43 - 4:03

 

 

Polybius Cipher 0:40 - 0:49

 

 

 

(So many bad guy themes/motifs).

 

Also there are SEVERAL other short motifs. This is a dense score. It will take crowdsourcing effort from all of us to nail all of this down.

 

Are you sure that what you have down for Voller’s theme isn’t the dial theme?

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

14 minutes ago, DangerMotif said:

Are you sure that what you have down for Voller’s theme isn’t the dial theme?

It seems to correspond to all instances of Voller appearing or doing something no? 

[DangerMotif 1,038]

Just now, TheUlyssesian said:

It seems to correspond to all instances of Voller appearing or doing something no? 

It also appears with Helena and Indy with the dial. The impression I got was that it’s the dial theme.

[Alex 2,835]

3 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

There's lots of discussion on FSM about issues with the sound on this release but I haven't noticed anyone here mention it. I plan to listen tomorrow but was wondering if anyone here had any comments about this.

There is a weird kind of thumping sound at the beginning of the Prologue (1.24). But I can only hear it with my headphones.

[Tydirium 1,167]

Re: The people over at FSM complaining about the mix… It sounds better than the mix on practically any of Giacchino’s scores; do they always complain about those as well?

[Faleel 5,356]

I will say it's one of the more concertlike sounding of his OST's recordings, maybe even more than Lincoln

[igger6 894]

7 hours ago, Alex said:

Most people his age are either dead or not eating solid foods.

Somehow this image sums up the miracle of the last seven or eight years more eloquently than almost anything else we’ve said here. Sixty-plus years of movies. Centuries Join Hands indeed.

4 hours ago, Signals said:

That brings up an interesting question, what historical figures has he scored?

 

Lincoln

Nixon (too recent?)

JFK?

Adams?

Michael Dukakis! And Hitler from TLC!

[Faleel 5,356]

31 minutes ago, igger6 said:

Michael Dukakis!

Who?

[Darth Mulder 154]

 

1 hour ago, igger6 said:

Michael Dukakis! 

 

Williams is a Democrat, that's one of the reasons he's a genius. 

 

Come on, someone write his religion and political views

https://hollowverse.com/~kg/kg%3A%2Fm%2F0146pg

[Erik Woods 555]

2 hours ago, Tydirium said:

Re: The people over at FSM complaining about the mix… It sounds better than the mix on practically any of Giacchino’s scores; do they always complain about those as well?

Yeah, the recording or mix is terrible. Trumpets sound flat and that timpani is overmixed. The overall recording/mix makes the orchestra sound really small. 

 

-Erik-

[Faleel 5,356]

17 minutes ago, Erik Woods said:

 timpani is overmixed.

 

-Erik-

(*Channeling @Jurassic Shark*) maybe Don Williams mixed it.

[crumbs 14,317]

Surprising, I love how the OST sounds! Certainly prefer the sound of this album to TFA and TROS (and TLC and KOTCS for that matter).

[Tydirium 1,167]

26 minutes ago, Erik Woods said:

Yeah, the recording or mix is terrible. Trumpets sound flat and that timpani is overmixed. The overall recording/mix makes the orchestra sound really small. 

 

-Erik-

 

Huh, I think the trumpets sound about how they usually do in these LA recordings (which sometimes may be a tad on the flat side, but I’ve not noticed anything too egregious in this score), and the timpani hasn’t bothered me yet. But I’ll take a closer listen.

[Panama Jack 9]

Without getting into spoilers, is the Soundtrack track list in chronological order as per how it plays in the film? If not, has anyone figured out yet what the chronological order would be (without having to split or edit any tracks)? 

[BrotherSound 2,242]

4 hours ago, Alex said:

There is a weird kind of thumping sound at the beginning of the Prologue (1.24). But I can only hear it with my headphones.

That’s a bass drum.

[Jay 37,369]

On 30/06/2023 at 3:11 PM, Panama Jack said:

Without getting into spoilers, is the Soundtrack track list in chronological order as per how it plays in the film? If not, has anyone figured out yet what the chronological order would be (without having to split or edit any tracks)? 

 

18, 3, 5, 4, 6-17, 2, 1

[crumbs 14,317]

58 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

18, 3-17,2,1

 

Pretty sure Voller Returns belongs before To Morocco. 

[Schilkeman 964]

2 hours ago, Erik Woods said:

Yeah, the recording or mix is terrible. Trumpets sound flat and that timpani is overmixed. The overall recording/mix makes the orchestra sound really small. 

 

-Erik-

Flat as in under pitch, or as in lacking dimensionality? They sound in tune to me, but definitely a different sound from the st. I'm not sure the timpani is overmixed so much as miked too closely, a growing problem in the classical world. 

[michael_grig 472]

Personally, I have four highlights:

 

This string run beginning at 1:11 of "To Athens"!

My absolute favorite little gesture in this score. 

 

Archimedes' theme is my new favorite Indy mystery theme! I love how it is featured in the prologue, it really deserves it's own concert suite! Too bad there is so little of it in the actual film!

 

00:46-00:59 of "To Morocco". Just heartwarming.

 

Also, the intro to "New York, 1969" is another masterclass in string composition, immaculate.

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

I was thinking that Helena's Theme in the first 1.07 of Prologue (which I think is unused in the film) is an alternate of To Morroco (2.06-end). it's has the same celeste intro and length

22 minutes ago, Michael G. said:

 

Archimedes' theme is my new favorite Indy mystery theme! I love how it is featured in the prologue, it really deserves it's own concert suite! Too bad there is so little of it in the actual film!

 

 yeah me too as I've said a few times. I got stuck playing the last minute and a half of prologue in a loop when I first listened to the OST

 

 

At exactly 1.56 of To Athens, that might be one of the best renditions of the Raider March ever

[crumbs 14,317]

A small but interesting detail I've had verified from a musician who performed on the sessions. They confirmed the only thing recorded on the day ASM attended the sessions was the violin arrangement of Helena's Theme. No film cues or anything else, just that arrangement (and it was noteworthy because a camera crew was in attendance).

 

So I'm wondering, when Williams said he was writing a "new ending" last year, was he actually referring to the OST? It is the final track after all...

[Richard Penna 3,694]

According to this video he sounds very specific to shooting a new ending: 

 

[Darth Mulder 154]

I want a Giacchino score for the new Indy...with youthful spirit for octogenarian leading actor...No, just kidding  Williams' score is accurate for Ford. 

[Romão 2,274]

2 hours ago, King Mark said:

I was thinking that Helena's Theme in the first 1.07 of Prologue (which I think is unused in the film) is an alternate of To Morroco (2.06-end). it's has the same celeste intro and length

 yeah me too as I've said a few times. I got stuck playing the last minute and a half of prologue in a loop when I first listened to the OST.

 

 

I've only just noticed it is also heard right in the middle of Centuries Join Hands

[Damien F 1,742]

8 minutes ago, Darth Mulder said:

I want a Giacchino score for the new Indy...with youthful spirit for octogenarian leading actor...No, just kidding  Williams' score is accurate for Ford. 

 

Gia's butchering of the force theme in the Trust Goes Both Ways track of Rogue One should disqualify him from ever using JW's themes again. It sounds as bad as a CD skipping.

[Vince 34]

I'm quite fond of the score overall but is anyone else having trouble appreciating the slower version of the Raider's March that Williams employs in New York, 1969? I guess it was his way of acknowledging the character's advanced age but it doesn't quite work for me. 

[Damien F 1,742]

I think it is fine. We already have a million recordings of the raiders march so a little variation here is fine, especially as it does probably relate to Indy's twilight years.

[handz 39]

21 hours ago, Damien F said:

 

Yes, that worked out well in Solo with John Powell working on Williams' themes.

But if I had a choice between some other composer adapting Williams' themes or Williams writing the whole score, I'd always choose the latter.

I am sorry. But I like some Powells music but most sounds like how to train your dragon. Cant stand the percussion driven tracks (lazy) and use of high almost folk flute flourishes and guitar (or what it is) in Solo. He can do beautiful music - Landos closet is amazing love theme, absolutely stunning but then he always return to his HTTYD style 😑

[Smaug The Iron 516]

26 minutes ago, handz said:

stunning but then he always return to his HTTYD style 😑

Which is great! 

[Jilal 569]

Battle of Syracuse is such a cool track.

 

Some things I really like: the ominous opening chord, the TLW-ish thumping motif and its orchestration (I think I'm hearing a synthesized prepared piano?), the many tritones, the wild chromaticism at 0:37 (which kinda reminds me of Howard Shore's The Doors of Durin) and in particular 1:16–1:30, which is one of my favorite bits of the OST.

[Romão 2,274]

Battle of Syracuse really is a great little gem. It's the closest Williams has ever gotten to scoring a swords and sandals epic. I do seem to hear some traces of Alex North, Tiomkin and maybe even Cordell in there. I love it

[Jilal 569]

11 minutes ago, Romão said:

Battle of Syracuse really is a great little gem. It's the closest Williams has ever gotten to scoring a swords and sandals epic. I do seem to hear some traces of Alex North, Tiomkin and maybe even Cordell in there. I love it

 

Now that you mention Alex North, I realize it vaguely reminds me of Leonard Rosenman's music for the ape soldiers' marching in Beneath the Planet of the Apes as well, but apart from the thumping motif and the synthesized prepared piano there appears to be little resemblance.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

5 hours ago, Michael G. said:

Archimedes' theme is my new favorite Indy mystery theme! I love how it is featured in the prologue, it really deserves it's own concert suite! Too bad there is so little of it in the actual film!

I’d venture 4:08 to end of Prolog IS the concert suite of Archimedes’ Theme. It has a relatively clean beginning & a clean ending obviously. 
 

As to why there is little of his theme in the film - well that is because - 

 

Spoiler

there’s little of him in the film. His theme only shows up when they visit his tomb and then when we actually see him during the climax.

 

 

[TolkienSS 407]

Maybe there will be an additional expanded album with an additional concert suite or two?

Maybe ...

[Romão 2,274]

24 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

Maybe there will be an additional expanded album with an additional concert suite or two?

Maybe ...

 

Expanded albums very rarely, if ever, contain additional concert suites. The whole point of those is to include them in the OST