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As a musician, I constantly see young female composers struggling to get the same level of attention and recognition as their male peers, even when their abilities are similar or higher. That's true at every level, from elementary lessons all the way up to professional jobs. Those in this forum who pretend that composition is a man's job couldn't be more wrong! There are hundreds of amazing female composers right now who create wonderful music in all styles and genres. When I teach 20th century music, I include roughly 50% of works by female composers, not because I want it to be equal, but because there are that many exciting female composers that need to be talked about! The problem is that aspiring female composers still have very few models they can look up to and be inspired from. And so, they either give up, or lack the support to continue. When we finally recognize it, as musicians and/or audiences, then these composers' music will be able to be heard like it deserves to.

Crazy how many people still think detached, performative Hollywood politics are a good litmus test for where modern liberalism is at. Not that detached, performative liberals aren't still a thing, or that Hollywood isn't at the same time capable of making an actual effort in the types of films and filmmakers they give exposure to, particularly those that have been all but non-existent historically. Point is, reactionaries thrive on taking whatever straw man they can find and running it into the ground so they can return to their comfortable seats. The Oscars tend to be a favourite because they're annual fodder and already pretty dumb to begin with. Lame as that may be, this thread also charts some insanely warped mental gymnastics, starting at "why does everyone make everything about race and gender, it shouldn't matter" before finally coming around to "my problem is actually just seeing other races and genders existing in media." Also pretty typical that we still managed to get in a few knocks at today's accepted terminology, with most of the ones brought up being all-too-classic bad faith examples from the right-wing wolf-crying handbook. It may interest you to know that in real life, people prefer to be acknowledged the way they do, for one, because it's a way of taking back the decades and decades where they were exclusively referred to by demeaning slurs. I would say that's an extremely reasonable and simple request in response to ages of systemic mistreatment (which I'm sure if you perused today's headlines, you'd find still very much exists on a tragic scale). Anyway, this is one of the basest back-and-forths in my time scrolling this forum, and in combination with some of the most dire, juvenile, bottom-of-the-barrel "differently abled" jokes I've encountered since maybe high school, it's doubly pathetic.

THEATRICAL CUT I hadn't seen this for more than 20 years and I didn't remember much. A somewhat weak story-wise Star Trek film but very impressive nonetheless! The Jerry Goldsmith score is magnificent, especially in the first appearance of the Enterprise scene. A lesson to learn for today's filmmakers who are afraid of film music and want just a music rug underneath.

My copy arrived, finally! I took pics of the relevant pages and resized them to keep the text legible while also shrinking their file size. The entire issue looks like a great read -- the folks at Gramophone did a fantastic job, as usual. There are several articles that feature or discuss JW, which means a lot of pics to upload. I'll break it up over two or three posts. Next batch of pics... And final batch. Enjoy!

Next up is Williams' grin-inducingly fun thriller score for this fantastically shot tense movie. (although these videos do not represent its cinematography well enough, partly due to their selective nature and partly due to problems coming from having to render footage at different speeds. Mike(?) wrote a good track-by-track and theme breakdown so I'll mostly comment on the film usage and notable sync points. 1M1A Beirut - unused in the film, this is my best guess. 1M3 Commandos Arrive - Used as is. 1M4/2M1 Commando Raid Part 1 2M2 Commando Raid Pt 2 2M3 Commando Raid Pt 3 - No real idea where these 3 split, they're mostly used as is with some microedits. The cuts back and forth between Dahlia and the van are very highly emphasised, also the different "phases" of the mission - arriving, setting up the bombs, starting to sneak around, entering and starting the massacre - all have their own tempo and orchestral denseness level. Notable is the string pause when Kabakov meets Dahlia, and the ticking countdown tempo after they set off the bombs. 2M4 It Was Good - used as is. 3M1 Dahlia Arries - used as is. 4M2 The Unloading - used as is. 4M3 Speed Boat Chase - the film only uses the opening, discards the final escape dash. 5M1 The Telephone Man - The film discards the ending percussion for Michael, opts to only keep his whistling. 5M2 The Captain Returns - used as is. 5M3 Nurse Dahlia - unused. 6M1 Kabakov's Card - well, these two gave me a bit of a headache. in the FSM track, they're joined with the next cue too, which separates from them logically. But these two... If I sync up the end of the remainder without 6M2 to the Kabakov's Card scene as is, I could cut it off at a point where it syncs up to the start of the scene, but then I would be left with too little for Nurse Dahlia - also, as it is in the film, it starts with music that sounds too much like that remainder to the Nurse Dahlia scene and not like the music that's synced up to it. My best guess - Mike significantly overlapped these two, dropping the buildup from 6M1 that's just repeated from 5M3. My best attempt was to cut off 5M3 at the point where the terrorist motif changes from bass flute to flute and a held high string note and mock up the buildup for 6M1 from 5M3 - so 5M3 is the marimba and piano opening then just bass flute, 6M1 is the marimba and piano opening then just the flute and held string. 6M2 The Hypodermic - used as is in the film. Since it's overlapped with 6M1's fadeout on the FSM (as heard at the end of 6M1 where I couldn't do anything), I mocked up a clean opening from 5M3 here too. 6M3 Moshevsky's Dead - The first half is unused, it would have scored Kabakov's reaction and inner emotional state immediately instead of only coming in when we cut away like in the film. 7M1 The Test - Unused in the film. There would be multiple ways to sync it up without knowing the original intent, maybe the footage would even have to be edited down, but this was the best guess I arrived at, the score coming in as we cut to the shot of their faces in the light, escalating as the monologue ends, shifting to the threatening note as they fly away. 8M1/8M1A Building the Bomb - Used as is. 8M2 Miami - used as is (also tracked over a second Miami air shot and date reminder later). 10M1 Dahlia's Call - Mike says this is for the scene that follows right after, Dahlia making a passionate demand of Fasil to let her finish the mission. I don't see any way of an entire reel being between them until this was composed for much later. I couldn't find any good place for it in the speech so in the end, I left it here where it might not be correct - it syncs up well enough. 10M5 The Last Night - unused, the film opts to throw out JW's "love theme" and instead dimly keeps Hotel Lobby playing from the previous scene. 11M1 Preparations - used as is, except for the very end. I chose to remove a shot of musician fans and have this partial Kabakov playing over the larger shots of the stadium and Kabakov. 11M5 Passed - unused, and I can see why - it works on album as a first "terrorist" cue for the final stretch, but Michael's only shown at the very end, it doesn't work over the other crew making funny faces. 11M7 The Flight Check - used as is. 11M8 Airborne - In the film this cue starts later, right before we cut inside the cockpit, I decided it works better scoring the blimp rising up. 12M3 Bomb Passes Stadium - used as is for this wonderful long take. 12M4 Farley's Dead - used as is. 13M2 The Blimp and the Bomb - mostly used as is, the opening before we cut to Dahlia uses tracked material, and the ending is removed because of removed shots. Here begins the final stretch of action which JW scores as tightly to the picture as possible, reacting to actions, gunshots, vehicle movements and dynamic changes in very fun ways. Unfortunately this cue is the most intact his score gets in the final film for a good while. 13M3 The Take Off - Only the end is used in the film, starting with Michael shouting to Dahlia to throw the body out - the rest is tracked over. Note the tense opening, the mad rush of strings for the police car, the catroonish sting for the crash, the mad rush of piano and brass for Kabakov arriving and his theme for him shooting at the blimp, and the fateful heavy terrorist waltz as the blimp seemingly escapes. 13M4 Underway - unused, this is the best place I could find for it, where the film tracks other material. 13M5/14M1 Air Chase part 1 - Used as is except for the opening strings - score parts for the cuts back to the game being removed will remain consistent, though understandable on some level to choose to instead focus on the crowd noise that'd drown it out anyway. Note more heavy waltz tempo for the huge blimp, and the agile rushing climbing strings for example for the helicopter maneuvering around it. 14M2 Air Chase part 2 - if my guess is right, this would be for the high-octane shootout between Kabakov's helicopter and the terrorists' blimp. Used only partly, the rest tracks other material all over. The strings vs waltz remain consistent, the cuts back to the stadium are very low-key and minimalistic here to contrast with the action. Note also the held strings for Kabakov and Dahlia's second staredown. 14M3 - Air Chase part 3 - this is likely the next part of the chase, where the focus is now to stop or divert the barely blimp and save the people. Mostly unused. Williams changes the tempo and stakes here, we go much slower but not less tense, the cuts back to the stadium are now scored with variations on two string notes climbing higher and higher to note the danger they'll soon be in. Note also the motif for the dangling hook, Kabakov's theme and the high strings when he starts sliding down and hanging, and the rising motif when the blimp finally reaches the stadium. The film drops this slower approach and tracks all kinds of faster cues all over. 15M1 The Blimp Hits - This might be controversial and even goes against what Mike writes. 14M3 finishes really well IMO. In the film 15M1 (along with many other places where it's tracked) plays where I ended 14M3. If I put 15M1 where it is in the film, we'd have a minute of black screen for unavailable footage. Instead, I tried something different and synced it up to this bit at the end of the stadium pandemonium. If I'm right and it scores Michael's final attempts to light the fuse line as well as the quick chaotic cuts to everything else, then this cue is completely unused where it was intended to be, but used a lot everywhere else in the finale. 15M2 The Explosion - Partly used, but the film loops the opening portions over the second half until the helicopter lifts off and flies away. Here, after the manic air-gunfight and the slow attempts to redirect the blimp, the bomb is finally lit and JW amps up the tempo again with a countdown-esque percussion that gives way to more purely orchestral tension scoring as the blimp is finally lifted away. Note the Kabakov theme entering as we see him flown to safety, the glorious buildup and the satisfying release as the camera moves to the blimp and it finally explodes. 15M3 The End - unused. Alternates and alternate placements Starting with a portion from 15M3 The Explosion, to show how 15M3 The Explosion (revised ending) was probably intended to fit into it - note the switch for the Kabakov theme from a "not quite out of the woods yet" minor rendition to a big major one, followed by glorious triumphant fanfares replacing the simple satisfying release of the original. Since this ends not far behind the same spot where the original does, I thought I'd add the percussionless 15M3 mix too to show how this last minute rescore really required a different end credits approach, since this doesn't fit together at all. Then comes 15M1 The Blimp Hits in its film placement replacing the end of 14M3, in case some people prefer it being here. And finally, a reconstruction of the very very strange film edit of the finale - 15M3 The Explosion playing out in full, then its revised ending just thrown after, not really synced to anything after its starting point, then the film edit replacement for the credits. No idea what the hell they were thinking, maybe it was so late that they didn't have time to remix the ending?

He's actually an AI hooked directly into the Invision forum software.

It's a personal preference. STAR TREK V is a lot better than most people will tell you. It has many faults, but, for all that, it is still a decent film. Three things about it stand out: 1/ it has some of the best cinematography of the entire series, 2/ the sound design is great, 3/ every Star Trek fan should be falling to their knees at Shatner's feet, thanking him for bringing back Jerry Goldsmith.

Yeah that's a really good point actually. I honestly wonder how much of the score was even hers - between half (or more) of her themes being rejected, Williams' theme being thrown on her after her score was in progress/near completion, William Ross stepping in to do/redo half the show, and her 3 (!) additional composers doing some unknown percentage of her half of the music . I think if she was given more control it probably would've turned out better

Too vague and easy of a statement to misuse, given the recent crimes that we've just had here with yet more cases of police brutality and targeted mass shootings. One of them happened very close to where we live, so while the Hispanic community here would be too big to target in a similar manner, that obviously is going to make public travel a serious risk if this keeps happening. Of course, you only say this in regards to online discussion, where we're far more likely to discuss these things as if they're nothing. And maybe that's the big divide here: the subject of race should be nothing much to discuss, but because of the continued systemic abuse that occurs, our response to double down in our pride for our own kin eventually ruffles the feathers of those who are lucky enough to remain comfortable all this time. Does it look like I'm happy to be discussing these topics? Absolutely not, but of course that won't matter to the few that have managed to live their lives much more worry free. And in that sense, I envy them, because I too want to live in the incredibly idealized world where these tensions could never apply to me. And yet I can't guarantee that, so it'll just now be a matter of me having to stand my ground while you and others (most likely unintentionally, to remain charitable) mock the suffering of those I admire greatly who still have a long way to just be allowed to simply live. This will absolutely be what gets me warned, but I kind of don't care. I'm just as likely to leave as you are if I don't get banned, so make of that what you will.

It’s the backbone of the modern liberal worldview: absolutely nothing about you is more important than the color of your skin, and we must focus on each others’ to the point of mania

I'm sorry that I didn't build you a stronger post, young Stu.

Well of course Obi-Wan's theme is in Rise of Skywalker, silly; it is in all the movies.

I grew up listening to Runaway (damn entertaining movie too) and while synth like this sounds weird now, I never gave it a second thought in the 80s. It was part of the decade’s sound and this score just rocks.

Runaway (Jerry Goldsmith) Very original, only-synth score, that I kind of like (although I prefer orchestral music).

Yes, for all its faults, it has some of the best character bits in the entire film series.

I volunteer to do the shouting!

Speaking of straw men, I see you’re creating them with ease. The problem I see is multiple generations brought up on the mentality that victimhood, or at least perceived victimhood, is how to define moral worth. I see huge groups of people searching out whatever marginalized status they can lay claim to and feel that sweet sweet dopamine of moral superiority. And then keep chasing the high of rooting out wrongthink and bigotry, addicted to meting out justice and self-valorization, which of course requires constant maintenance of and renewal of their marginalized status. To be clear, this mindset is just as insidious on the right as it is on the left. It actively distracts from the truth and is based in hate and pride just as much as the bigotry they think they fight against. Anyway this whole thing on the thread goes back to the specific claims of the director of Till that are so transparently the claims of a sore loser trying to seek whatever leverage they think they have. And because the Academy is a modern liberal institution they have to pretend, or worse believe, that instead of being a sore loser, they are a noble victim of injustice.

Just watched the film. 10/10. Had it all; cried, laughed, thought about it. This film really says a lot about how creative people feel. The last shot!!!! I will never forget the sudden excitement that came straight from my gut and coursed through my body as I watched the camera shake. A masterpiece of a film, I think.

Just messing with you dude. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. It is perhaps a more harsh and difficult score than the first one, and understandably so, but I find it very satisfying. It might seem scattered due to the bigger emphasis on ethnic and electronic elements (as opposed to an orchestra) but there is some logic to it. The film and score obviously deal with a more serious and sombre topics so the music definitely reflects that. What's interesting, the thematic progression is actually much clearer in this score. I particularly love how Shuri's new theme brilliantly represents her journey in the film. Not exactly a catchy tune but constructed in a way that allows for a multifaceted character study. It's introduced softly at the very end of the funeral sequence (right after the screen goes black), and then goes through different permutations reflecting stages of grief. It is at times mercurial (Welcome Home or Wakanda Forever), often lost (He Wasn't There), at one point dangerously intertwined with Namor's theme (Let Us Burn It Together) and finally finding emotional release in Vengeance Has Consumed Us where it is finally fully formed and playing against Mozart-like string arpeggios. It's interesting that Goransson never fully states T'Challa's theme, not with the voices chanting his theme, and merges that Black Panther fanfare with a theme from the original theme that was associated with Shuri (I think). The only thing I find disappointing is that Rihanna's song doesn't end the album as it should, since it is teased early in the score in a scene where Queen Ramonda offers Shuri a chance to burn her funeral robes, and clearly represents the healing. It feels odd the album should end where it does where the song was clearly meant to offer some much needed comfort and, one again, emotional release. I also like how songs feel integrated into the story, rather than just being a simple needle drops. Arboles Bajo Del Mar is nicely built around Talokan theme first heard in Sirens and it works absolutely stunningly against Namor's origin flashback. The score might not be everyone's cup of tea but, to me, it is one of the finest of 2022 - it's intelligent and thoughtful - and an interesting dramatic counterpoint to a much happier and celebratory Black Panther from 2018. Karol

TWOK is more true to Star Trek in budget and scope, but STTMP is close to classic Trek as far as the story goes (it's even based on discarded material for the cancelled phase 2 show, like much of STTNG's first season). What they added from 2001 were the scope and the expensive special effects (and the pacing). TWOK did become the model for the future Trek films (at least of the original universe), especially the better ones.

Me too really. More than Wrath of Khan? Strange...

We should all stop discussing Oscar politics and focus on hating Velma, the newly released HBOMax adult animation starring characters from Scooby-Doo that has been getting hate from leftists and right-wings. It's a remarkable feat to create something that was hated by both sides!

The lack of recognition of the influence of jazz on Williams' voice always rankles me. This recent critical reappraisal of his work is great, as are his appearances with the great European orchestras. But seeking to place him in the pantheon of the European classical tradition while ignoring his jazz background only gets you half the story. It's the jazz imprint on his harmonic and rhythmic language and how he brought that into an orchestral idiom that sets him apart from his peers. Maybe this is a bit grandiose, but I think of Williams as a historic, generational figure at the intersection of two musical traditions from across the world that were brought together in the US through an array of global political and socioeconomic forces — emigration, capitalism, colonialism, slavery, Nazism, abolitionism, etc. Of course, these musical traditions were intermixing for many decades before Williams, but he played no small part in how they combined to create today's modern musical landscape. That, I think, is a much more interesting and significant legacy than simply inheriting the pop mantle of Korngold and Wagner. But obviously, jazz remains a blind spot of classical music critics. You can find a lot more about Williams' jazz roots from music theory geeks on YouTube than classical critics at prestige publications.

"Theme From Jurassic Park" is a unique opening and ending recorded just for the album, with a film cue ("The Dinosaurs") in the middle. "The Dinosaurs" is also in the middle of "Journey To The Island" on both disc 1 and disc 2 - exactly same performance of the exact same music in all 3 spots. "End Credits" is the second half of the end credits suite. Identical performance to the second half of "Welcome To Jurassic Park", the album track that contains the entire end credits suite. So yes, Williams put "The Dinosaurs" on the OST album twice, and he put the second half of the end credits on the OST album twice.

Which, at least according to my impression, is primarily a male stigma. I don't think it's usual for men not getting jobs as head nurses because it's deemed to complicated and requiring too much experience - which are exactly the reasons that have just been cited for why still not a single woman has been invited to conduct the Wiener Philharmoniker's New Year's Concert.

The suite for cello and orchestra from Memoirs of a Geisha has actually six movements and not just three. And I miss the suite from Catch Me if You Can in the listing. I guess, a reason why such suites are not played more often are the costs. But I would love to hear a suite from The Witches of Eastwick in concert with The Township of Eastwick The Tennis Game Seduction of Suki and the Ballroom Scene Dance of the Witches

For a second I thought you meant Garber himself had died and I was like, how did miss that?!

1m11 You mean, Jesus He Knows Me?

People are never going to believe this, but... RUNAWAY is in my top-10 favourite Jerry scores.

This was released digitally on Friday!

It used the film stem instead of a proper new scan and mix because Jones refused to allow the tapes, which are in his private collection, to be scanned.

Maybe he's waiting for a proper release like I am.

Wait... you enjoyed something? Karol

Our Town is my personal favorite of Copland's 8 film scores, an incredible piece of work. The complete re-recording that Naxos released 15 or so years ago is essential, now I just wish we'd get complete modern re-recordings of Red Pony and Heiress (as great as the Intrada release of the original recordings is). But @AC1 you skipped my favorite of the Our Town piano pieces, "The Resting Place on the Hill," adapted from what is the greatest cue in the original score IMO.

After 43 years, TMP is still my favourite Star Trek film. I doubt that anything will change that.

So can we safely assume that Copland invented the Western (The Wild West) music? Or was he merely copying some unknown composer and who died a poor man? Besides Rodeo, here are two more contemplative piano renditions from Our Town that I absolutely love. Conversation At The Fountain Soda (Our Town) Story Of Our Town (Our Town) That's right, Philip Aaberg is the pianist who played with Elvin Bishop (Fooled Around And Fell In Love).

At last some first hand substance to the discussion. Thank you. That just explains why jobs dealing with things are usually paid better than jobs dealing with people.

This is technically nothing. JW has been clinging to this i-iii-ii-V-i melody idea for several of his new themes. Such as Holdo’s theme from TLJ (that horn theme in TLJ album credits track). And Anthem of Evil is very similar. He is starting to self-reference like Horner more often.

Damn! Beat me to it!

You have to pay licencing fees *at least*. I'm not familiar with how these things work for orchestras, but I do know a bit about the amateur choir perspective. In many cases, if you want to perform a modern day work, you're required to buy or rent (they're not always for sale) the original parts from the only company producing them, which should give you a hint about how competitive the pricing is. For public domain stuff, where at most the printed form of the scores may be protected, you can often get the whole material much cheaper, or even for free on the internet (and usually nobody cares if an amateur ensemble uses photocopies).

Just ordered this!

Good grief. Forget the acrimony, politics should continue to be banned on this forum simply because of the tedium.

Actually no, that was a different market. Dumbass.

Interesting stuff. Voicing certainly does matter. Williams uses one particular construction (e.g. C Ab B) so often that I literally just think of it as the "Williams chord." I'll write "C Wil" or whatever as a shorthand when it comes up as I study his music.

Well, the job's not done. Now they need to make the rest of the film's camera work look like this. A more impressive job would have been to make the fight look more dynamic (if that's what you want to do) but still look like Star Wars. This fails at that goal in every regard.

Images :-)

Adjusted for inflation, I believe it's still behind "Highlander 2: The Quickening".

God help you? SCC is phenomenal!

Most likely a coincidence. That said, this does underscore the important scene when Kylo becomes Ben again, and he was named after Obi-Wan. 🤷🏻‍♂️