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Corrected Theme Associations. Suggestions feedback welcome. SOME TIMESTAMPS - Nazi Spirit Theme (Potentially appears just twice in the film + once in end credits) Nazi Determination Theme (Most prevalent Nazi theme) Nazi Might Theme (scores title card - first theme heard) (potentially appears only two times in the film + once in the end credits) Dial Of Destiny Theme Dial of Destiny Piano Motif Archimedes Theme Antiquity Theme Syracuse Motif Voller Theme (absolutely butchered on album. This receives extensive airtime in the film but from the album you wouldn't realize this is the main villain theme!)

Not sure if this warrants its own thread or not, but I've done a first pass at transcriptions of the new themes from DoD. I don't know if we've come up with consensus labels for all of these, besides the obvious for Helena and Voller. Also have little confidence that the Archimedes theme is transcribed rhythmically 100% accurately, or the tertiary Nazi theme harmonically. Helena (transcribed from arrangement that premiered last year): Antiquity/Antithykera Mechanism (transcribed from "Prologue") Antithykera Mechanism (transcribed from "Archimedes Tomb") Antikythera Piano Figure (transcribed from "Battle of Syracuse") Archimedes (Transcribed from "Prologue") Nazis 0 "Voller" (transcribed from "Airport") Nazis 1 "Spirit" (transcribed from "Prologue") Nazis 2 "Supremacy" - exotic and furtive (transcribed from "Prologue") Nazis 3 "Might" -- chorale(transcribed from "Prologue") Nazis 4 "Determination" -- Transcribed from "The Airport" Syracuse -- Transcribed from "The Battle of Syracuse"

I hope Williams writes a full concert version of Archimedes Theme like he did for Jedi Steps for concerts. Did I already say I love Archimedes theme? Not enough times I need to bring it up every page of this thread

Saw it last night in the theaters and am listening to the soundtrack on youtube right now. Both are outstanding, much surpassing my expectations. Amazing they can make a high quality action adventure starring an 80 year old man. And much of that credit goes to the 91 year old composer! Cheers to the whole crew: Harrison, Maestro, George, Steven, Mangold, Kennedy, Phoebe WB, Mads, and the others that brought this to life. Thank you for this last adventure!!! Fantastic!

I'm seeing so many more people online talking about the score for this film in a positive light, even in more casual corners of the Internet. Definitely seems to me to be getting noticed and appreciated in the public sphere in a way that I never saw so immediately after release with the ST scores, so that warms the ol' heart.

Saw it last night. My initial reaction to this movie is positive—a solid 3 out of 4 stars. Lots of action, very well cast, and perfectly spotted. JW’s score was a gem throughout and I thought it was mixed nicely. Unlike many others here, I didn’t find the lifts or near-lifts distracting or disappointing. Every scene had the right kind of music, confirming that JW hasn’t lost a single step in his advanced age. At least a dozen times during the movie, I caught myself being gobsmacked at the fact that a 90-year-old man wrote every note I was hearing with a pencil on paper. (And, yes, there were a lot of notes to be heard, played on instruments many of today’s film composers appear to have forgotten still exist—like woodwinds, for instance.) I sort of share the growing consensus here that Indy wasn’t really done right by the plot or script. It was deflating to see Indy broken by the loss of his son and his marriage and worse still not to see him recover his mojo by the end. The story arc, however, did make more poignant and believable Indy’s desire and willingness to remain in the past, and I thought that Mangold did an OK job landing that story beat—although I really wish we could have seen what Spielberg would have done with that, because he would have nailed it. While we’re on the subject of the third act, the reveal of the Battle of Syracuse was one of the very few times I can recall in my moviegoing experience that I was genuinely taken by surprise and loved it (I count myself extremely fortunate that I forgot there is a track called Battle of Syracuse on the OST.) Mangold handled the uncertainty of that whole sequence brilliantly. Indeed, every shot taking place inside the airplane was basically perfect. (It’ll be a long time before I forget the look on Voller’s face when he realized how badly he fucked up. And then the panic throughout the plane when it dawns on them that their escape window is closing with each arrow hit… I felt like I was going to get stranded in 200-whatever B.C.) I felt stakes in a movie for the first time in I don’t know how long. More stakes than I’ve ever felt in any MCU/DCU movie. More than I felt in the entire Star Wars sequel trilogy. It was bliss to feel that in a movie again. That alone was worth the price of admission.

Just listened to the score for the first time and I enjoyed it a lot! Helena's theme is great and even Indy's theme gets some very nice variations. To Morocco is my favorite cue of the year so far!

Just got back from seeing the film. I thought the score was fantastic! Definitely sounded like new recordings of most if not all of the existing material from the earlier films, which makes me all the more bummed that so much of it didn’t make it onto the OST. I actually really enjoyed all the reused stuff, and “Belly of the Steel Beast” for example was so cool to hear in a movie theater (TLC came out a few years before I was born). Based on some posts here and elsewhere, I was also bracing myself for not much Indy theme, but was pleasantly surprised; I thought his theme showed up in all the right places, and there were some really awesome renditions that, again, I wish had made it onto the album. Prior to seeing the film I had listened through the OST 4 times, so the stuff that wasn’t on it really stood out to me in the theater. Still, it was incredible hearing a John Williams score in theaters in 2023. (I’m ashamed to say I didn’t make it to see Fabelmans in theaters last year, so this was my first time hearing his music in the theater since TROS.) And I know some have had a tough time with Helena’s theme, but over the past 9 months it has become one of my favorite JW themes in a very long time, and its use in the film was pretty much everything I had hoped for. Archimedes’ theme was also a highlight. All in all, I’m very happy! Hoping to go see it again with a friend soon.

It rewards relistening and analysis, the motif breakdowns already posted here certainly help.

Temp-tracking certainly explains some passages, though I feel pretty comfortable that most everything has been newly recorded. Where there are longer spans of music built from successions of little bits and pieces of previous cues (notably most of the opening act), it's William Ross, tasked with cobbling together an "Indiana Jones action set-piece" that all was technically JW music, but in which JW never really had to be involved. Williams wasn't flipping through the pages of his old Indy scores (or TinTin, MR ,or WOTW for that matter) carefully considering "oh, I'd like to revisit that 10 measure fragment from The Boat Scene"...

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Flalalandrecords%2Fposts%2Fpfbid0FauEzoe6mEVNKiMUKJkeU4gPFr5ViG7Xe72GJpHCd1CrkxHYjxPuxffkGLQUfvuwl Meh...

Variety did a report on movies from this year with Oscar buzz, and they already positioned JW's Indy 5 score as an earlier contender for the Best Original Score award. https://variety.com/lists/oscar-contenders-movies-2023-so-far/original-score-indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny/

Give us the hook!

Here's a clue for the next flyer so you can go to sleep

The likes of this is exactly why I'm going to a 10:00 am screening tomorrow morning. For me nowadays when it comes to seeing 'big' movies, the smaller the amount of fellow patrons the better.

He's gonna win. EZ win. Helena's Theme will carry us to victory. Help us Helena, you're our only hope.

If he is nominated, it will be the last hurrah for Golden Age (oh, alright, Silver Age) Hollywood. At the moment, it's all "drone" this, "wailing" that, and "sonic landscape" the other. Like it, or not, JW is the last purveyor of quality scores which harken back to a different era in film scoring, and a different era in filmmaking. He, literally, is a dying breed.

Found some nice alternate poster designs from artist Tony Stella’s Instagram page. And an alternate custom soundtrack cover!

I saw the movie tonight and while I enjoyed it, there are some things that were very disappointing. The off screen death of Indy’s son and his divorce felt so unnecesary and really put a damper on the whole movie. Indy can be a bit grumpy without this heavy baggage and they could just say that Mutt is living his own life instead of having him killed off off screen. Helena’s motivation also is wasn’t great IMO as the movie would have benefitted from her having a closer or at least better relationship with Indy. I also wanted to see Marion and Salla more as there wasn’t really any reason they couldn’t join on the adventure. However the movie on an overall story level is very well done. I like the Dial as a concept and the villains were pretty good. The train sequence was cool and so were many of the action scenes. The movie overall gives me a more negative feeling though because of the underlying sadness of Indy’s character throughout. JW’s score is great though and as someone who thinks Tintin is among JW’s best works, it was nice to hear some duel i spired music. Helena’s theme is beautiful and I can’t wait to listen to the CD! I will be seeing the movie again in a couple of weeks and hope that is have a more fun time with it on second viewing.

CORRECTION TIME! Voller Theme above is the Dial of Destiny Theme Dial Of Destiny Theme above is Antiquity Theme / Ancient Greece Theme Archimedes Theme is correct This is the real Voller/Villain Theme - 1:37 in Voller Returns

The Nazi Might theme and Dial theme made the biggest impressions on me in the theater seeing the movie for the first time. I know Voller is often scored by his theme and Helena hers, but idk, those didn't really stand out on first watch. I really liked all the original music during the prologue and wish that was in the Germany 1944 track instead of the On The Tank and March Coda stuff.

Obviously I totally disagree with your assessment that the entire DOD album is filler but we'll agree to disagree.

No, I think you misunderstood me. None of those are filler. Only Tuk Tuk is filler, in my opinion. ALL the others are masterpieces, which is the point when comparing to Tuk Tuk (not a masterpiece, much closer to "filler"). And, I appreciate and respect your opinion on the the pieces you referenced from DoD. I don't share them. I'm envious as I wish I did. But I am grateful that you shared them with me -- if we were in person together, I'd buy you a beer and celebrate all of the JW awesomeness that we probably do agree on.

Thought it'd be fun to assemble a list of all cues from previous scores referenced in the prologue. In order of appearance: X Marks the Spot (TLC) Keeper of the Grail (TLC) [Thanks to @paleo!] Belly of the Steel Beast (TLC) R3P4-R4P1 The Medallion (ROTLA) R11P4 The Broken Bridge (TOD) R1P6 Once in a Vial (TOD) R8P5 Pffist Fight (ROTLA) R2P2 The Boat Scene (TLC) R10P3-R11P1 On the Tank (TLC) 3M5 The Conveyor Belt (Minority Report) 3M4 Anderton's Great Escape (Minority Report) R2PA Sub Commander (1941) 7M53 Kathy Kennedy's Great Flying Machine (KOTCS) 5M38 Andy's Full Nelson (KOTCS) R10P6 The Nazi Hideout (ROTLA) 2M8C Indy Versus The Russian (KOTCS) 2M11 Prairie Dog and Nuclear Cloud (KOTCS) R1P3 The Rolling Ball (ROTLA) End Credits (ROTLA) I also seem to recognize the following two bits, but can't quite place them: unidentified.mp3 unidentified2.mp3

Fourth listen, I still love this!

It has grown on me a lot, the OST definitely deserved more renditions of this beautiful theme.

You know what's funny to me? The theme for Voller is how I expected a General Hux theme to sound like in the Sequel Trilogy. Like John plucked music out of my imagination.

Well last year we've got the Jurassic Park reissue in July, so it could be cool to have one JP per year

Hoping for a 3-CD set of Hook... or The Lost World reissue, that would be great too.

Where's the flyer?! It's nearly July 2 in Australia

I was a bit bummed out that Sallah went through all the trouble of taking his passport, but then Indy convinced him to stay in the States. Bugger! So close!

Finaly I have a little time to write about the film and music. (I watched it on opening night...) First of all, i have mixed feelings about both. When I got out of the cinema, i was somehow depressed. There is nothing wrong per se with the film and score... but although i have thought previously about it, seeing this film it truly dawned on me the fact that they could have been doing by the least an indiana Jones film a decade post- last crusade, and this film would be a great 6, 7 or 8 film. Ot ar least should have made another old indy film in the 2010s. The series is now so disjointed. We are missing so many adventures and years in between. In the end they made a film without spielberg and Lucas...which they could have started doing in the 90s. In this case its a shame it was not sold to disney then. We would have good and bad films, but at least we would have seen our hero age gradually. About the score... I like everything, but the 1944 prologue left me saddened. I dont mind temp track love in the rest of the film, more times than not its reworked enough and this has happened several times before in williams works. In the prologue it seems a William Ross job. Like they said to him to compose the music using previously indy material. At least the pieces are masterfully intertwined and does not sound jarring. but sounds a little like a Lucascarts 90s videogame edits using williams music. i think Mcneely Phantom train of doom is better at reworking Williams pieces... I was expecting new music composed in the vein of the old indy scores, and it is a crime the last crusade nazi theme is not used at all. shame :(. About the film... really they open the film in the damned Alps, and disney could not concede to Paramount the mountain logo fadeout? They did it the lucasfilm logo.... but it ruined the continuity of the other 4 films. I thought the young indy was perfect in some shots..but some were very weird and looked fake. I would have thought that with an extra year they could have been improving that. The rest of the film is nice overall, I dont remember any jarring or unnecessary scenes. I liked williams finally recorded the short version of the indiana jones theme, without the marion theme interlude between two renditions of the theme. I loved the final scene with marion, it was so sad and lovely at the same time, you could feel these characters loss. If only Labeowuf had not been such a dick to spare them such grief (because they would not have killed his character, i mean :p) The OST flows nicelly but i'm in KM's team. We need the rest of the music. I wonder if Mandgold had been a Williams fan like us if he could have suggested to use Hitler's motif when Voller tells indy his objective in 1939 .. I would had. or used the last crusade nazi theme in the prologue... and so. I expected indy to lose an eye here... to match young indy appearance... which makes me think... why dont they ask ford to shoot those old indy scenes in his actual self... and make the series alive again....

Absolutely LOVED IT. A far better thsn KOTCS. Phoebe nails it in every scene she is in and Harrison is just terrific. He should get an Oscar nod for this.Williams score is perfect- lovely references from Raiders and Last Crusade I think they temped a lot with existing Williams scores. The film has terrific homages which work so well. Film is well edited and the CGI Indy wasnt that bad either. Great entertainment and overall dark and serious with a lot versimilitude that was missing from the last outing.

Not my design, but that of the artist Tony Stella.

I don’t agree that Indy should “as a man of science” realize on his own that he has to go back to the future. With the position the character is in, staying in the past is all he’d want to do. That said, I do agree that the punch is too much. If it were my script, I’d never send the characters to the past, but I’d also rather see Helena as the conflicted character at the climax. Then Indy can take his father’s place as the one who tells her to let the grail dial go.

yeah it seemed a lot longer than Prologue. At least we can get that clean eventually

After having listened to the OST several times through but not yet having seen the film (watching tomorrow), I'd like to share overall impressions: - Helena's theme is beautiful and works as a flowing golden age heroine theme and works well in more of an action mode. - the bad guy themes are appropriately fun and brassy. - Indy's theme is used way too sparingly. It's almost jarring when it gets a big presentation in New York, 1969. - the OST lacks an emotional heart, something like the father and son theme in TLC or maybe even just more of Indy's theme played in that guise like it does in To Morocco. - And most unfortunately, the action music lacks the kick-ass tenacity that runs through the best Indy action music. There is no bad-ass, I want to listen to it on repeat action music on this OST.

One moment I really enjoyed both as cinema and musically is the shared flashback that starts from Indy’s POV on the plane and comes back as Helena’s. It’s a great bit of visual storytelling, it’s scored marvelously and give us a lot of character stuff. Probably in the script but Mangold shot it well. I also felt the editing of the Airport through to the end was quite good (but in that I might just be loving the music for the entire sequence). Overall, just came back from a my second viewing (1st was 2 weeks ago), this time with my wife. First off, she really liked the movie. She rates it way above Skull (which she rewatched this week at my suggestion to get the necessary info about Marion and Mutt) and maybe more than TLC and TOD. I could see that about TOD given that has some gruesome moments but not TLC. In any case, glad she liked it (and allowed me to drag her to a 9 am showing). Focusing on the music and after many listens of the OST this week, I am super pleased with the music in the movie. On my first viewing, I was grabbed by all the familiar motifs and themes and styles from other Indy movies and other JW movies as noted throughout this thread. But on the second viewing, I was able to hear more of the new stuff and how it weaves together. I was also surprised by how many more moments of now music there was than I remembered on the first watch. The music 100% enhances and pushes the movie forward in ways that are right for the series, and if you back to skull and see how Marion’s theme is so key after she is introduced in the movie, I think Helena’s theme followed suit. Of course, Helena is a much more action character, and her theme morphs to her actions. It’s just so well done. I do miss the NYC stuff in not being on the OST. I loved the difference of it both for the sneaking music for Helena and the CIA agents and the horse ride through the parade. It works with the time period, the fractured nature of what is going on in the story and the ability to start and stop it for the diegetic music. The end suite - I wish we had all the pieces. I know it’s basically the back half of NYC + Helena’s Theme + Prologue but I still felt something was else was in there. Could be wrong. I am ok with the way it ends sentimentally and softly. Overall, looking forward to seeing the movie again! (And getting all the music some day if I live that long or fine a dial of destiny to go forward in time and bring back the music after the copyright expires.)

I'm seeing an anti Kathleen Kennedy backlash against this film for being another "woke disaster" , with some Youtubers urging fans to boycott the film. But this time I personally don't see it. Harrison Ford is still great as Indiana Jones and Helena acts like a spoiled brat during most of the movie but her character ark is well fleshed out and she evolves to care about Indy and I thought she was a pretty good female sidekick overall. But I think it's Disney's fault for pushing divisive identity politics so hard in the past few years that they pissed off a large portion of the fanbase and now they see something wrong with everything even when it's actually ok. I think it might be one of the reasons Disney films have been doing poorly at the box office lately.

Here is the next Oscar winner writing his experimental/edgy/100%-electronic/awful-to-listen-to score that will make the Academy, film critics and entertainment media go like "this is so fresh and effective!"

Those three tracks have everything you want to hear in a score: drama, tension, excitement, action, pathos, beauty, cool use of themes, interesting orchestration. An incredible 10 minutes of music. Bravo Maestro!

I cannot get enough of The Airport. It's… what a piece… what a brilliant sound. I love it.

Alright I just came back from seeing the film on opening night. All the people "who didn't notice major omissions from the OST" are inhaling the copium. The score has a truckload of unreleased music, entire action sequences that aren't on the OST, and some of the more mysterious underscore like the end of the Archimedes Tomb scene when they assemble the Dial, and several good renditions of Helena's Theme and the Raider's March. Most of the short action cues we got on the OST are parts of bigger set pieces with lots of unreleased music and that includes The Airport and Battle of Syracuse (there's a lot of unreleased music when they're flying the airplane into the time crack and afterwards). And they released the worst part of Germany 1944 on the OST, there's fantastic music in that sequence that takes place on a train and that's all original. It's hard to fully appreciate this unreleased music because the mix isn't very good and a lot of it is drowned out by sound effects. Yeah there's a few "lifts" from previous scores but only a few seconds here and there and the worst offender is the Last Crusade music we got on the OST. This might be a worst case scenario if we don't get an expanded edition soon or isolated score. For most of the other Williams grails like the SW Prequels, Indy 4, TFA and Last Jedi, we have most of the unreleased music trough videogame files, bootlegs, recording sessions, isolated score...ect. Even TROS had a generous amount of unreleased music on the FYC.

No disagreement from me. JW at his worst is 95% better than most scores/composers at their best. Especially in the current day and age. I miss the 80s/90s and the pillars of that era, including Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, Poledouris... and the list goes on. I sometimes like to think they kept each other on their toes -- not necessarily "competing," -- but bringing out the absolute best in each other.

Enjoy! I'm looking forward to my second showing also. Not sure when that will be, but can't imagine I'll wait too long. And I'm very interested in the 4D version!

I had a strange week. I had a lot going on in my life and one complete surprise - nothing really terrible, but was on my mind a lot.... So I just couldn't get excited about the score - or rather I couldn't really concentrate on it, which I think for me with a new Williams score is first! Hence, I'm still getting to know it, and up until yesterday I didn't really have time to give it my full attention. I'm sure it'll grow on me though! Am planning to spend more time with it this weekend. and I'll be seeing the movie on Tuesday or Wednesday. I like tinkering, so here's what I did to the OST. I edited into three sections the Prologue. My iTunes version starts with The Helena beginning of that piece. Helena's Theme moved to after New York 1969, which I divided into two at the obvious point. There's not a clean gap between the Prologue's villian music and the Greek motive and the rest of the piece, but I used a bit of a fade into the Greek motive so It's something I can live with, The violin version I moved to Across The Stars where it follows Marion's Theme - or "Marion's Violin" as I renamed it. I like having all those violin arrangements in the one artificial iTunes album.

Actually, Scott's first collaboration with Streintenfeld was 2006's A Good Year. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Good_Year But don't worry, literally no one remembers that this movie existed, unless you happen to be browsing on Scott's or Russell Crowe's filmography page. They also did American Gangster in 2007, which was more well-received than either A Good Year or Body of Lies.

This is about the only place I can say this and people will understand, but the tracked musical phrases through the actions scenes completely took me out of the viewing experience. The new Nazi/Voller theme is great. I liked the movie a lot, despite clear faults. Amazing how easily you can feel Spielberg's absence.

Cool! It's great to get these things down on paper. I'm currently figuring out the harmonies in preparation for a piano arrangement of Helena's theme. Most of your labellings look correct to me, though I hear some things differently. For line 2, I hear something like: So bar 2 I would say is Ab9 -> Em/G And bar 4 I think is just Ab diminished -> D. As for line 3 bar 4, is the 2nd beat F(b6)? (b6 as in Db?) I just hear F (or FMaj7 at most). I also agree with @filmmusic that A is leading up to the main "first subject" which is A'. (P.S. I just love the elusive, luscious harmonies in this theme...JW knocked it out of the park as far as I'm concerned)

jay trying to catch up to all the posts today like