Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!

[Archive Collection 214]

23 minutes ago, toothless said:

Water Ballet has me wondering what kind of bugs are crawling and racing while Jones tries to escape them hahaha. Haven't seen the movie so I could be hilariously wrong of course. 

 

It's a lot of fun... And it's not the only scene like it in the film...

[filmmusic 1,829]

So, 4th time I'm listening to this now..

With this ost the following paradox happens with me:

Each time I hear it, I like it less (usually the opposite happens).

I don't know, the Indiana Jones music is overly saturated, and as much as I love John Williams, I will stick to my opinion that this was superfluous.

I apologize to the fans of this soundtrack.

[crocodile 8,017]

I don't feel you need to apologise for anything @filmmusic! We all like different stuff. It's all cool.

 

Karol

[TolkienSS 407]

7 hours ago, Pieter Boelen said:

THAT many??

I think were going to need timestamps for all the themes in this movie.

It seems there are many more than seem apparent at first glance.

Williams has been busy!

 

Maybe he just sketched them briefly and no fully formed theme exists.

 

In "Voller Returns", the tune playing at 0:37 and 1:23 has to be thematic because it reoccurs several times on album.

 

Also, the reoccuring motif at for example 2:04 in that track is strongly reminiscent of Peter Pettigrew theme.

[Brónach 1,302]

seeing the state of this and to the risk of being "downvoted" to oblivion and due to my impression that JW does this due a tired sense of obligation, i think i would have loved to see full-fledged collaboration between him and someone else on this.

[iamleyeti 114]

44 minutes ago, Brónach said:

seeing the state of this and to the risk of being "downvoted" to oblivion and due to my impression that JW does this due a tired sense of obligation, i think i would have loved to see full-fledged collaboration between him and someone else on this.

I would have been VERY curious to hear Marco Beltrami working on themes from Williams…

[Damien F 1,742]

12 minutes ago, iamleyeti said:

I would have been VERY curious to hear Marco Beltrami working on themes from Williams…

 

Yes, that worked out well in Solo with John Powell working on Williams' themes.

But if I had a choice between some other composer adapting Williams' themes or Williams writing the whole score, I'd always choose the latter.

[Alex 2,835]

3 hours ago, filmmusic said:

So, 4th time I'm listening to this now..

With this ost the following paradox happens with me:

Each time I hear it, I like it less (usually the opposite happens).

I don't know, the Indiana Jones music is overly saturated, and as much as I love John Williams, I will stick to my opinion that this was superfluous.

I apologize to the fans of this soundtrack.

It’s fascinating how these things work, because for it me it was the complete opposite!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

13 minutes ago, Alex said:

It’s fascinating how these things work, because for it me it was the complete opposite!

Indeed I'm discovering more and more.

It's not as stellar as Williams' best.

But I'm happy to have it all the same.

We are lucky.

 

10 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

 

SOME TIMESTAMPS - 

 

 Nazi Theme 1
 

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Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:16 - 3:27

 

 

Germany, 1944 3:26 - 3:36

 

 

 

Nazi Theme 2 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 1:55 - 2:29

 

 

Voller Returns 2:17 - 2:35

 

 

 

Nazi Theme 3

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 1:07 - 1:41

 

 

 

The Airport 1:05 - 1:25

 

 

 

Voller Theme 1
 

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Voller Returns 0:41 - 1:14

 

 

Germany, 1944 2:41 - 2:59

 

 

 

 Archimedes Theme 
 

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Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 4:08 - end (possible concert rendition)

 

 

Archimedes' Tomb 1:13 - 1:46

 

 

 

Dial Of Destiny Theme 1

 

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Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:43 - 4:03

 

 

Polybius Cipher 0:40 - 0:49

 

 

 

(So many bad guy themes/motifs).

 

Also there are SEVERAL other short motifs. This is a dense score. It will take crowdsourcing effort from all of us to nail all of this down.

 

The videos don't load for me.

Anyone else that issue?

 

5 hours ago, toothless said:

Water Ballet has me wondering what kind of bugs are crawling and racing while Jones tries to escape them hahaha. Haven't seen the movie so I could be hilariously wrong of course. 

You're hilariously not so wrong.

 

I like the little joke about snakes the movie makes right before.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

1 hour ago, Pieter Boelen said:

The videos don't load for me.

Anyone else that issue?

 

I've provided the actual timings too. So you can scroll within the track and locate the theme.

[essel 15]

I saw the film yesterday, and although I like the opening sequence, I was (and still am) truly bothered that so many motifs from previous films had been recycled at this point in the film…

 

I had been expecting a completely new action cue for the sequence, but instead I heard those themes that I strongly associate with moments from the other films, which was disturbing and frustrating (just like what I experienced while watching AOTC during the Battle of Geonosis, or ROTS and the Attack on the Jedi Temple, among others). This is particularly frustrating because the film was postponed by more than a year, which could (/should?) have given JW enough time to score such segments. But then again, there must have been continuous changes to the script and editing, which might have made it difficult for the Maestro to showcase all of his talent.

 

I was afraid that this recycling of themes would happen throughout the whole film, but fortunately it wasn't (much) the case. I just was sad that the Nazi's theme from TLC was never used (at least I did not spot it), because it's one of my favourite villain's motifs. Hearing some music related to Tintin was perfectly fitting, as IJ is inspired from the Belgian comic book character.

 

On the whole, I found this a more pleasing film to watch than KOTCS (due to its 'nuke the fridge' moments among others), although I found it a bit slow at times. I am glad we have some more extra score by the Maestro; hopefully this will not be his last contribution to cinema.

[Bellosh 3,419]

'Battle of Syracuse' is so fun!  It's a welcome treat after the type of peril/seriousness 'The Airport' has (also a great cue!)

[Damien F 1,742]

23 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

'Battle of Syracuse' is so fun!  It's a welcome treat after the type of peril/seriousness 'The Airport' has (also a great cue!)

 

Those two cues are a knock out together followed by the beautiful ending of Centuries Join Hands.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

43 minutes ago, essel said:

I had been expecting a completely new action cue for the sequence, but instead I heard those themes that I strongly associate with moments from the other films, which was disturbing and frustrating (just like what I experienced while watching AOTC during the Battle of Geonosis, or ROTS and the Attack on the Jedi Temple, among others). This is particularly frustrating because the film was postponed by more than a year, which could (/should?) have given JW enough time to score such segments. But then again, there must have been continuous changes to the script and editing, which might have made it difficult for the Maestro to showcase all of his talent.

I think all the reuse was intentional and composed as such from the start.

There is clearly original material joining it all together.

 

In a way, I really like "Germany, 1944".

"On the Tank" is such a great originally unreleased track.

And it sounds great here!

Really gets the blood pumping.

[crumbs 14,317]

10 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

I think all the reuse was intentional and composed as such from the start.

There is clearly original material joining it all together.

 

In a way, I really like "Germany, 1944".

"On the Tank" is such a great originally unreleased track.

And it sounds great here!

Really gets the blood pumping.

 

On The Tank sounds better here than the recording for TLC, that's for sure! Comparing the two tracks really highlights how poor the latter's album sounds (by modern standards).

 

Though all the previously unreleased music on the Concord TLC sound worse than the OST tracks.

 

Let's hope Mike can fix that someday.

[Tydirium 1,167]

In “Germany, 1944,” is “On the Tank” the only cue from the previous films that is blatantly quoted more-or-less verbatim? Or are there others? For example, are 1:54 and 2:09 new versions of Indy’s theme (albeit obviously similar to a number of past appearances of that theme), or are they quotes of existing cues?

[crumbs 14,317]

8 hours ago, Tydirium said:

In “Germany, 1944,” is “On the Tank” the only cue from the previous films that is blatantly quoted more-or-less verbatim? Or are there others? For example, are 1:54 and 2:09 new versions of Indy’s theme (albeit obviously similar to a number of past appearances of that theme), or are they quotes of existing cues?

 

There's definitely more. I heard at least:

The Portuguese Coast

The Medallion

The Jungle Chase

Indy vs the Russian

Desert Chase

On the Tank

Belly of the Steel Beast

Airplane Fight

Plus the Raiders March coda from ROTLA.

 

Edit: misread your post, sorry. My answer is relevant to the music heard in the film, not the album track.

 

But to answer your question, 1:54 and 2:09 are lifted directly from Airplane Fight (ROTLA). Not new music.

[JTN 2,030]

3 hours ago, iamleyeti said:

I would have been VERY curious to hear Marco Beltrami working on themes from Williams…

Or John Powell. Or James Newton Howard. Maybe Alan Silvestri. 

[Damien F 1,742]

12 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

There's definitely more. I heard at least:

The Portuguese Coast

The Medallion

The Jungle Chase

Indy vs the Russian

Desert Chase

On the Tank

Belly of the Steel Beast

Airplane Fight

Plus the Raiders March coda from ROTLA.

 

Edit: misread your post, sorry. My answer is relevant to the music heard in the film, not the album track.

 

But to answer your question, 1:54 and 2:09 are lifted directly from Airplane Fight (ROTLA). Not new music.

 

I heard Escape from Venice in the tuk tuk chase too.

[Tydirium 1,167]

13 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

There's definitely more. I heard at least:

The Portuguese Coast

The Medallion

The Jungle Chase

Indy vs the Russian

Desert Chase

On the Tank

Belly of the Steel Beast

Airplane Fight

Plus the Raiders March coda from ROTLA.

 

Edit: misread your post, sorry. My answer is relevant to the music heard in the film, not the album track.

 

But to answer your question, 1:54 and 2:09 are lifted directly from Airplane Fight (ROTLA). Not new music.

 

Thanks a lot! Of the other ones you listed, did they all sound like new recordings, or did any of them sound tracked?

[Bellosh 3,419]

53 minutes ago, Damien F said:

 

Those two cues are a knock out together followed by the beautiful ending of Centuries Join Hands.

 

there's a lovely transition into Indy's theme in there and also the percussion is nice and 'epic/ancient' sounding at 2:51-2:53.

 

Little stuff like that is so brilliant

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

To Athens is not only a highlight of this album, but among the best cues in  the 5 scores.

 

I think the Archimedes Theme could have beat the Ark and Grail theme if there was a full concert version or a "Map Room" style cue with it

 

 

[DangerMotif 1,038]

7 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I think the Archimedes Theme could have beat the Ark and Grail theme if there was a full concert version or a "Map Room" style cue with it

[Richard Penna 3,694]

5 hours ago, Brónach said:

seeing the state of this and to the risk of being "downvoted" to oblivion and due to my impression that JW does this due a tired sense of obligation, i think i would have loved to see full-fledged collaboration between him and someone else on this.

 

I'd love to have heard what Powell would've come up with, using Helena's theme as a base. If he could do an outstanding job on Solo he could do Indy.

 

I see nothing wrong in acknowledging that as a 90 year old he might start to need some help to complete a major score.

[D_A_R_T_H 24]

do you have the chronological order...? 

 

[Alex 2,835]

I know it’s mentioned a lot, but I’m not sure we really recognise how incredible it is that this music was written and mostly conducted by a 90 year old man. Most people his age are either dead or not eating solid foods. I know we have some legitimate complaints about the album presentation, use of older themes etc, but how many other 90 year olds are active and working, let alone writing a cue like “To Athens”. It is an astonishing achievement whatever you think of the soundtrack. Just listen to the orchestrations in “Tuk Tuk to Tangiers”. A man who statistically should be dead sat down at his piano and came up with that. I remember back in 2015 when we all freaked out because he’d pulled out of writing music for Bridge of Spies and 8 years later he’s conducting at the premiere of the 5th Indiana Jones movie. Blessed we be.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

There's definitely more. I heard at least:

The Portuguese Coast

The Medallion

The Jungle Chase

Indy vs the Russian

Desert Chase

On the Tank

Belly of the Steel Beast

Airplane Fight

Plus the Raiders March coda from ROTLA.

I definitely caught something from Doom too.

[Damien F 1,742]

6 minutes ago, Alex said:

I know it’s mentioned a lot, but I’m not sure we really recognise how incredible it is that this music was written and mostly conducted by a 90 year old man. Most people his age are either dead or not eating solid foods. I know we have some legitimate complaints about the album presentation, use of older themes etc, but how many other 90 year olds are active and working, let alone writing a cue like “To Athens”. It is an astonishing achievement whatever you think of the soundtrack. Just listen to the orchestrations in “Tuk Tuk to Tangiers”. A man who statistically should be dead sat down at his piano and came up with that. I remember back in 2015 when we all freaked out because he’d pulled out of writing music for Bridge of Spies and 8 years later he’s conducting at the premiere of the 5th Indiana Jones movie. Blessed we be.

 

I doubt there will ever again be a scenario where a 90 year old composer writes the score for a major action movie starring an 80 year old actor.

[Schilkeman 964]

17 minutes ago, Alex said:

I know it’s mentioned a lot, but I’m not sure we really recognise how incredible it is that this music was written and mostly conducted by a 90 year old man. Most people his age are either dead or not eating solid foods. I know we have some legitimate complaints about the album presentation, use of older themes etc, but how many other 90 year olds are active and working, let alone writing a cue like “To Athens”. It is an astonishing achievement whatever you think of the soundtrack. Just listen to the orchestrations in “Tuk Tuk to Tangiers”. A man who statistically should be dead sat down at his piano and came up with that. I remember back in 2015 when we all freaked out because he’d pulled out of writing music for Bridge of Spies and 8 years later he’s conducting at the premiere of the 5th Indiana Jones movie. Blessed we be.

Yes, more of this and less of the nit-picky crap, please. Love what you have, and you'll have more love. This score is a statistical miracle.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Without having seen the movie, I'm still surprised to know that the Prologue OST track doesn't score the actual prologue of the movie. 

 

It not only sounds like a movie cue, but a movie cue that actually begins a movie!

 

The Helena's theme from 0:00 to 1:07 seems like something for the Disney, Paramount and Lucasfilm logos. Then, the Nazi material for an initial scene of the villains looking for the Dial of Destiny, with a few action parts for them fighting Indy.

 

If this is an end credits suite, it's the most film-cue-sounding suite of all time.

[Tydirium 1,167]

Anybody else getting serious “Sabrina” vibes from tracks like “To Morocco” and “To Athens”?

[Damien F 1,742]

7 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Without having seen the movie, I'm still surprised to know that the Prologue cue doesn't score the actual prologue of the movie. 

 

It sounds not only like a movie cue, but a movie cue that actually begins a movie!

 

The Helena's theme from 0:00 to 1:07 seems like something for the Disney, Paramount and Lucasfilm logos. Then, the Nazi material for an initial scene of the villains looking for the Dial of Destiny, with a few action parts for them fighting Indy.

 

If this is an end credits suite, it's the most film-cue-sounding suite of all time.

 

The very first cue we hear in the film is unreleased and this includes the first statement of Indy's theme in the score.

[Erik Woods 555]

55 minutes ago, Alex said:

I know it’s mentioned a lot, but I’m not sure we really recognise how incredible it is that this music was written and mostly conducted by a 90 year old man. Most people his age are either dead or not eating solid foods. I know we have some legitimate complaints about the album presentation, use of older themes etc, but how many other 90 year olds are active and working, let alone writing a cue like “To Athens”. It is an astonishing achievement whatever you think of the soundtrack. Just listen to the orchestrations in “Tuk Tuk to Tangiers”. A man who statistically should be dead sat down at his piano and came up with that. I remember back in 2015 when we all freaked out because he’d pulled out of writing music for Bridge of Spies and 8 years later he’s conducting at the premiere of the 5th Indiana Jones movie. Blessed we be.

Yes, that is indeed great but that doesn't make the music any better. I ain't giving anyone, including John Williams, a participation trophy! And I'm sure he wouldn't want to be pandered to either.... not say you are. Your thought was beautiful and I think we all appreciate the fact that he is still with us doing what he does best!

 

-Erik-

[Edmilson 7,466]

22 minutes ago, Damien F said:

 

The very first cue we hear in the film is unreleased and this includes the first statement of Indy's theme in the score.

Sorry, I meant the Prologue OST track. I fixed my post for clarity.

[Damien F 1,742]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Sorry, I meant the Prologue OST track. I fixed my post for clarity.

 

Yes, I understood, I was just mentioning that the first cue we hear in the film is unreleased.

[Bellosh 3,419]

Here's my (way too early) ranking of all the cues.

 

1. To Athens

2. To Morocco

3. Helena's Theme (look this should probably technically be number 1, but as the suite, I probably won't listen to it as much on it's own as some other cues)

4. Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

5. The Airport

6. Battle of Syracuse

7. Centuries Join Hands

8. New York, 1969 (simply cause the raiders march)

9. Voller Returns

10. Germany, 1944 (if it didn't have the coda at the end it'd probably be lower)

11. Tuk Tuk in Tangiers

12. The Grafikos

13. Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique

14. Archimedes' Tomb

15. Perils of the Deep

16. Water Ballet

17. Polybius Cipher

[Alex 2,835]

2 minutes ago, Erik Woods said:

Yes, that is indeed great but that doesn't make the music any better. I ain't giving anyone, including John Williams, a participation trophy! And I'm sure he wouldn't want to be pandered to either.... not say you are. Your thought was beautiful and I think we all appreciate the fact that he is still with us doing what he does best!

 

-Erik-

True, but I have an overall positive impression of the music. I will happily pander to JW! His music has helped me through many difficult times. He’s the closest I have to a “hero”.

[Holko 9,526]

Second listen, I still really like it!

[Richard Penna 3,694]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

Just listen to the orchestrations in “Tuk Tuk to Tangiers”. A man who statistically should be dead sat down at his piano and came up with that. I remember back in 2015 when we all freaked out because he’d pulled out of writing music for Bridge of Spies and 8 years later he’s conducting at the premiere of the 5th Indiana Jones movie. Blessed we be.

 

I applaud your point, in terms of us collectively being extremely grateful for the music he is still giving us when he owes us nothing.

 

However, assuming that Williams had a decent amount of time, i.e. at least a good number of months, to do this, a cue like that is dare I say it, sort of expected given the job? Had this been a replacement score that he had to compose in 3 weeks then I'd agree that the result would be amazing, but for a regular scoring process it doesn't seem all that remarkable tbh. If Williams didn't feel he was mentally capable of doing the job, he would've found a trusted composer to hand it over to.

 

And I second Erik's view that he wouldn't want you to be pandering to him like this.

[Jaaaackified 81]

Just came back from the movie and in need of some help regarding Indy music

 

Is there a definite "nazi's theme/motif" from previous entries? 

 

I constantly find some music bits from scenes with nazis in it familiar but could not remember where I have heard it before. 

[Damien F 1,742]

30 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

Here's my (way too early) ranking of all the cues.

 

 

17. Polybius Cipher

 

I love the variations of Helena's theme in that track. That would definitely keep it higher on my list.

[p0llux 398]

I've gushed over Helena's Theme, but it's time to gush over the next theme. Archimedes' Theme or The Dial Theme or whatever the theme is at the end of the Prologue.  There's an air of mystery, mysticism, and ancient history behind it that is so perfectly done. It's like a theme that can describe the cosmos. It also feels like a theme that can describe the notion of eternity too. All these big ideas throughout human history can be described with this one theme.  Overall to sum it up, it's a theme for philosophical or spiritual, or in this case archaeological ideas? Whatever it is, I am loving it. I'm rambling now. Anyways...

 

Of all of Williams' artifact themes, this one is quickly climbing to the top. 

[stravinsky 206]

Can I ask what the melody is at the close of Track 1 on the Album? Saw the movie yesterday here in Glasgow Scotland. It was alright/disappointing. Stupid dumb plot. Also they still can't get the Deepfake thing tuned to perfection yet. The best thing about it as a Glaswegian was seeing Glasgow double as New York City in the parade scenes.

 

P. S My question has been answered already. Does track 1 constitute the only appearance of this theme on the Album? 

[MikePetersen 8]

27 minutes ago, Jaaaackified said:

Just came back from the movie and in need of some help regarding Indy music

 

Is there a definite "nazi's theme/motif" from previous entries? 

 

I constantly find some music bits from scenes with nazis in it familiar but could not remember where I have heard it before. 

Yes. Raiders has a Nazi theme, heard most prominently during the beginning of the Desert Chase, and also the Airplane Fight. Last Crusade introduced a new Nazi theme, more developed, and it's heard pretty much every where in that score. 

 

[JTN 2,030]

Listening to the last(?) John Williams (Indiana Jones) score… 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

20 minutes ago, p0llux said:

I've gushed over Helena's Theme, but it's time to gush over the next theme. Archimedes' Theme or The Dial Theme or whatever the theme is at the end of the Prologue.  There's an air of mystery, mysticism, and ancient history behind it that is so perfectly done. It's like a theme that can describe the cosmos. It also feels like a theme that can describe the notion of eternity too. All these big ideas throughout human history can be described with this one theme.  Overall to sum it up, it's a theme for philosophical or spiritual, or in this case archaeological ideas? Whatever it is, I am loving it. I'm rambling now. Anyways...

 

Of all of Williams' artifact themes, this one is quickly climbing to the top. 

I love this theme. It’s stands in contrast with all the earlier macguffin themes as somber and reflective (except maybe the grail theme? But that seemed more noble than this one).  I’m sure I’m projecting, but it suggests to me Williams reflecting on his own protracted career, how he’s surely in the closing chapters of his life. It sticks out to me that Williams swerved from his usual closing the credits on the Raiders March to instead go out on this theme for what is likely to be his final film score.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

CD album available from today??

 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

54 minutes ago, p0llux said:

I've gushed over Helena's Theme, but it's time to gush over the next theme. Archimedes' Theme or The Dial Theme or whatever the theme is at the end of the Prologue.  There's an air of mystery, mysticism, and ancient history behind it that is so perfectly done. It's like a theme that can describe the cosmos. It also feels like a theme that can describe the notion of eternity too. All these big ideas throughout human history can be described with this one theme.  Overall to sum it up, it's a theme for philosophical or spiritual, or in this case archaeological ideas? Whatever it is, I am loving it. I'm rambling now. Anyways...

 

Of all of Williams' artifact themes, this one is quickly climbing to the top. 

Archimedes’ Theme is indeed a most remarkable theme. I think it bests Helena’s theme for reasons I’ll go into soon.

 

 But to me the theme represents his wisdom, his nobility his far sightedness. This is one of the few times Williams has written music to represent a major historical figure - a genius at that. It captures for me the staggering contribution that Archimedes has made to humanity.

[Faleel 5,353]

That brings up an interesting question, what historical figures has he scored?

 

Lincoln

Nixon (too recent?)

JFK?

Adams?

 

 

4 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

There's definitely more. I heard at least:

The Portuguese Coast

The Medallion

The Jungle Chase

Indy vs the Russian

Desert Chase

On the Tank

Belly of the Steel Beast

Airplane Fight

Plus the Raiders March coda from ROTLA.

 

Edit: misread your post, sorry. My answer is relevant to the music heard in the film, not the album track.

 

But to answer your question, 1:54 and 2:09 are lifted directly from Airplane Fight (ROTLA). Not new music.

Pretty sure I also heard music either lifted from or adapting "Sinister Visitors" from TLC "Remembering Henry Sr./Leaving Campus" from KOTCS on the album.

[1977 1,743]

There's lots of discussion on FSM about issues with the sound on this release but I haven't noticed anyone here mention it. I plan to listen tomorrow but was wondering if anyone here had any comments about this.