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An attractive woman in a tight outfit and my mind naturally gravitates to how good JW looks.

I think there's some truth to this, but I also think Tolkien's dislike of Dune comes from much more basic level. Tolkien's characters are largely mythological archetypes. He's interested in morality, grace, and virtue, and thought his stories should reflect those things. He wanted to tell heroic tales, and if he has characters with shades of grey (mostly in The Silmarillion), it's typically because they were on their way to falling from grace. Tolkien didn't have "anti-heroes" as we'd think of them today, at most he had heroes who were flawed and Tolkien made clear they were flawed in ways one shouldn't aspire to. In short, Tolkien hated everything about what we'd now call "postmodernism". It shouldn't surprise anyone that Tolkien wanted to tell epic, mythological stories inspired by the Icelandic sagas he loved so much. Dune is much more morally relativistic, and this is reflected in almost all the characters. It's psychologically complex in an arguably Jungian way, that Tolkien would have found to be devoid of meaning. There's also a strain of nihilism and existentialism that Tolkien would have abhorred. Herbert doesn't have heroes as such, and none of his characters are on a hero's journey. Dune is also full of allegory, which Tolkien famously despised. If Tolkien was inspired by the Sagas of the Icelanders, Herbert was inspired by Lawrence of Arabia (a film he loved). I don't want to get into more specifics out of respect to people like Jay and Chen G. who haven't read it or seen the Lynch film, but basically, more or less everything Tolkien hated was in Dune. BTW, none of this is a criticism of Dune on my part. It's a great book in my opinion, and a masterpiece of science fiction that I'd recommend anyone read. But from Tolkien's POV, I get why he hates it.

Anne Sophie said in a recent interview that she wants to record the concerto. Not sure if live or studio. There will be encores from the Across the stars album and arte will stream the full concert https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/104491-000-A/anne-sophie-mutter-und-john-williams-mit-einer-urauffuehrung/

With DG providing a post-live stream for the concert, I wouldn't be surprised if we get an official release by them before long (in 20 different versions and formats). Might be they make a separate studio recordings, but that's expensive, and it also can't be sold on video, so I would imagine there's a good chance they'll release a Blu-ray of the actual premiere concert.

I love Williams' eloquence with the written word--it does surely makes you want to read more thoughts about music in general from him! From his description, it seems another work very much in the vein of his more recent concert pieces. Wistful and contemplative, with the occasional virtuosic outbursts. I very much envy all the people who will experience this live on Saturday

From Doug Adams's Twitter

Roger says http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8759

Elliot Goldenthal would've been such a perfect fit for this

I'm fine with discussing the work on this more conceptual level. I don't mind getting a general feel for what the work is: that's probably helpful. I think there's a difference between a tragic hero who has flaws and psychological complexity, but exists within a clear, moralistic framework where his flaws have to be payed-for by a reversal of fortunes (Peripeteia), and an antihero where his would-be "flaws" aren't being judged by the narrative, or are even meant to have the audience sympathize with them in an anti-institutional "sticking it to the man" type of scenario. Tolkien writes many tragic heroes. In fact, he probably writes more tragedy than comedy (here in the Aristotelian sense). The very impetus for his writing his legendarium was to rework a classic tragedy, the Kallavela, and the resulting character of Turin Turamabar has a very complicated psyche indeed. But I really think a better example of how you can write extremly complex people into a story with a clear moralistic framework is in Der Ring Des Nibelungen: Wotan is an extremlly complex character, but he's in no way an anti-hero: he's a good person who is reduced through compromises into all manner of questionable deeds, and ends up paying the price. Really, all the heroes of the cycle - not just Wotan but also Siegmund, Sieglinde, Siegfried and Brunhilde are patently "the good guys" and yet they have a great deal of psychological complexity. Anyway, we'll see how much of this "moral relativism" is retained in the film: the marketing seems to positiong Timothee Chalamet's character as a young hero, and I bet that's how they wrote him for the scren, too. I don't really want to watch a very morally relativistic work: I abhor that kind of stuff just as much as Tolkien did.

I don't find it an easy read (which is certainly why I remember little from when I first read it some 20 years ago), but I do find it fascinating. And Herbert could write a suspense-packed scene, like the political banquet in part 1.

Lovely post, Marian, wonderful insights

Part 1 is basically the story of the Atreides on Arrakis. It ends when they're over, so Part 2 deals with Paul among the Fremen and the various remaining "side" characters. And there the problem also is mainly that it's a "mess", because they couldn't manage to handle the various separate strands of the story post-Breaking. I like much of the bulk of what's there, but the problem is what isn't there, or what's there only in traces - Frodo and Sam can't have more than handful of minutes of screen time during the entire TTT part of the film. Might also be related to chronology issues, which PJ got around by often very liberally stretching and compressing time when jumping between the plot strands. I would like to see someone do an "authentic" film version following Tolkien's own structure someday, because so many of his original twists and cliffhangers are based on his asynchronous way of telling the story. I know it's difficult to do that in a film (or probably considered "wrong" by many), but if a book can choose between telling the story chronologically or in interleaved separate chunks, I don't see why a film must not. It was just a single line - plus that (perhaps cheesy but very effective) animation of seasonal transitions, and Rosenman's score - a snippet of music that made a strong subconscious impression on me even at a time when I wasn't aware that music was specifically written for films. I like Jackson's prologue and stuff, and obviously the early parts of the book aren't easy to turn into a "consistent" film, with Tolkien believing for pretty much the entire first book (of six) that he was writing an episodic adventure sequel to The Hobbit. But there is a certain something about the concept of The Shadow of the Past, with much of the plot-specific prologue information framed by the highly atmospheric setting of Gandalf telling it to Frodo, that conveys an enormous depth, at least some of which is simply lost by taking the exposition out of the narrative. Just the title itself with the thought of Gandalf and Frodo smoking at the fireplace in Bag End gives me chills the film can't replicate.

https://www.facebook.com/annesophiemutter/posts/370089164481746

The 2010 LLL was made with all they could find at the time, which was the album master, the film's music stem, and I think a few things from some other (later generation) source. A couple things ended up with the wrong names on them, like the film cue "The Truth" accidentally being called "Joker's Muzak" and shuffled off to disc 2. Then, the 2010 E/B box had some of that same music now in better quality, plus a longer version of "Joker Flies To Gotham" which had been shortened considerable on the 2010 LLL. It also had 9 "worktape" demo tracks we never would have heard if not for the box (plus the new music box track made directly for the box, if you count that) Then, when working on volume 2 of the Animated Series releases in 2012, LLL found a recording of the original demo made for Tim Burton and the producers of the '89 film to approve Danny's theme for the score, played on solo piano by Shirley Walker. It was included as an Easter Egg on that set (even though it was made for the original film and not the show) Then, Neil finally found the proper, first gen master of the score, including cues that Burton had dropped from the final theatrical release (so weren't on the music stem used for the 2010 naturally). That was the primary source of the two Batman discs in the 2014 Danny Elfman Batman Collection. However, due to some stupid legal thing, he couldn't start over and design a new program from the ground up using this new source; Instead he had to release an "rebuild" of their 2010 program; All the exact same track titles on both discs, containing the same content as before, just now taken from this new, proper, good sounding source whenever possible. A little bit extra snuck in there, like now "Joker Flies To Gotham" was even longer than the E/B box version... but those cues he found on the source that weren't in the film couldn't actually be included here because of the stupid stipulation! Then, in 2018 Mondo got vinyl rights to release the score in expanded form, and somehow this time Neil was able to design a new main program from scratch and not be stuck with the 2010 program. In addition to including the previously unreleased and unused cues ("Board Meeting" and "Vicki Hides The Film"), he made other choices when building this main program, like no longer crossfading "Batwing II" and "Batwing III" together (and therefore debuting the full ending of Batwing II and the full opening of Batwing III), and other little changes like that. Oh, and "The Truth" is now under its proper name and chronological placement in the main program. However, this Mondo edition was only the main program from main title to end title, no bonus tracks (and, it sold out in 20 minutes!) So, a proper, definitive edition would have: The full complete main program containing every cue recorded, currently only available on the OOP Mondo vinyl All the alternates, different mixes, and other bonus tracks currently only available on the 2010/2014 editions The worktape demos and music box track currently only available in the E/B box The Shirley Walker piano demo currently only available on the BTAS Vol 2 set Additionally, there could be additional material Neil found on that proper element that couldn't be included on the Mondo set (because it had no bonus tracks), potentially... I have no idea. The sheet music (released officially by Omni) lists some stuff, like a cue called "Morning After" and one called "... Or Their Sons", plus there are supposedly alts for "Stair Kiss" and "Batwing I", etc.

Might check this one out in the theater One more week till the OST album!

Overall I'm very happy with the situation: Ludwig Göransson was able to work with Nolan and created this incredibly aggressive and relentless sample and e-guitar based score to Tenet, while Zimmer is able to mature his relationshsip with one of his futurely very important collaborators.

I absolutely hate the co-relation between the Best Picture category and the Best Score category. It is totally ludicrous that 4 of the 5 nominees come from best picture nominees. This is simply not plausible. There as an unconscionable bias towards the "films of the year" so that every branch tries to throw nominations at them. For example Moonlight is a good movie, but did it really have to be nominated for score. Brokeback Mountain? Babel? Seriously, someone listened to those things and said this is a great example of the art of film scoring compared to everything else this year? Like seriously, Three Billboards had one of the scores of the year? JNH can't get in for Fantastic Beasts and gets nominated for News of the World? My favorite nominations for Score are the ones which I know were nominated for the score and composer only and would have been nominated regardless whether the actual films were in award conversation or not. You gotta hand it to John Williams and Thomas Newman. They have consistently achieved nominations because of the work they produced or the respect they commanded from their peers. As opposed to Desplat - who I like, but is absolutely what I would think of as a "bait" composer. He gets hired or picks films that will be Oscar contenders and gets automatic nominations. Desplat's 11 nominations have come for 9 best picture nominees and 2 best animated feature nominees - both extremely friendly to best score nominations. That to be is extremely fraudulent. It tells me Desplat picks well, not that he composes well. A true mark of respect commanded by his peers would be if they nominate him even if the film itself is not in contention. Could he land a sole nomination like The Book Thief or Tintin? I think not. Micahel Danna could write the masterpiece of his life and wouldn't get long-listed. But score an oscar front-runner and the oscar is ready for you. Not to say it isn't a good score but that's how it goes. It's a mercy Gia won his oscar long ago. Because as good as Gia is, the kind of films he scores will simply never net him oscar nominations. Ditto JNH. JNH consistently writes magnificent music but it is the oscar bait movies which get him into the conversation. So note to composers who want to win their Academy Award - pick well. You don't necessarily need to score well. PS: And lest I completely throw the academy awards under the bus, it is undeniable the composers covet them and are honored by them. JNH has said that of course he is honored to receive a nomination. In the trade of film scoring, there is no bigger recognition or prize to be had than winning an academy award. There really aren't many other film score prizes worth a hat.

This sentence is beautifully crafted: "One man’s sunken cathedral might be another woman’s mist at the dawning."

Don't know if anyone's ever spotted this before, but it seems they listed John's brother Don Williams as a tubist rather a percussionist in the CD booklet

This was my most wanted Elfman expansion. I just hope it won't be too expensive. I absolutely love the score and as for the movie is probably the last Burton work I enjoyed. Just absolutely spot on for his sensibilities. Great cinematography, production design and a terrific supporting cast. But like most Burton movies, it really starts to drag by the third act This theme just perfectly conveys the atmosphere of the place and the setting. So evocative:

For the past 6-9 months my listening has more and more been dominated by jazz of the 20s-50s, so it's gratifying to see that Williams still keeps that music of his formative years in his mind. Thornhill is interesting because so much of his output is nakedly commercial but for the attentive listener (as I'm sure Williams was in his teen years) the Thornhill arrangements often have ear-tingling features of harmony and orchestration. By the end of the 40s Thornhill was also using Gil Evans as an arranger and started recording some less frivolous tunes by bebop pioneers like Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, and Illinois Jacquet. Clearly that specific Thornhill era was hugely influential on Williams. I like to imagine JW really vibing on something like this around age 17

You can check the full concert program notes here: https://a5974837ba.site.internapcdn.net/images/program-notes/2021-full-notes/20210724.pdf

Couldn't see any pictures of the CD so here they are: Karol

I don’t necessarily see Michael Corleone as a tragic hero. He’s certainly a tragic character, but he’s most assuredly a villain, even if he’s one we can occasionally sympathise with. Michael isn’t a good person with flaws. He starts out relatively good and eventually becomes irredeemably corrupted. Others might disagree, and that’s fine, but I see Michael more as Macbeth, not Hamlet. He’s a protagonist who also happens to be a villainous thug. On the other hand, Lean’s Lawrence probably is a tragic hero, his flaw being vanity. But as I said, those comparisons only take you so far, and neither really sum up Paul.

Yeah I think this is right. He’s not a tragic hero, at least in the way Tolkien, or even Shakespeare thought of a tragic hero. But he’s also most certainly not an anti-hero. He’s a complex creation, and there aren’t many like him in literature. Villenueve compared Paul to Michael Corleone, and he’s also been compared to the T.E. Lawrence of the film. I don’t think either quite captures who Paul is, but I also wouldn’t call the comparisons unfair. I think part of Herbert's message is that there are no heroes, and if there are they aren’t to be trusted. In any event, while Paul certainly isn’t on a hero’s quest (though perhaps he starts out that way), I think for the first part of his journey the film will portray him as a hero.

Normally, the the future is "altered" when the pre-cogs see a murder that "will" happen, and the Pre-Crime unit figures it out properly and gets there in time to stop it. This time, the pre-cogs saw a murder that also "will" happen (Anderton killing Leo Crow), but Anderton became aware that it was all a setup, so didn't do it. Either way, it's sort of the same thing; knowing about a thing before it happens enables a changing of the thing. And yea, Agatha is special, and knew that Sydow had killed her mom but couldn't exactly explain it but could somehow lead Anderton to figure it out... I think Overly sentimental endings and rushed endings are a Spielberg trademark, especially in this era of his career (see also: War of the Worlds) Sean's story is simply that he was abducted as a child from the public pool and that's it. Sydow hired Leo Crow to fake that he was behind it. Maybe the audio descriptor didn't make it clear, but it's Anderton's personal choice. He puts it on in the room to listen to while he is doing his thing; It's not necessarily something anyone else doing the same job would do The first one is Symphony No 8 Mvt I by Schubert The second one is Symphony No 6 Mvt II by Tchaikovsky I think so Yea https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2019/12/11/mike-matessino-podcast-disaster-soundtrack-collection/

Black Widow Jeesh, I saw this opening day in the theater and forgot to write about it until now It was... meh. The biggest crimes are that it's not very exciting or interesting. The few interesting characters that show up aren't used to their full potential (Pugh, Harbour) or only really do anything towards the end of the film (Weisz). The action scenes are forgettable. Like I can remember why each one was happening, but nothing specific that happened during each one is retained, as they weren't very interesting at all. The other crimes is that there's just now way around the fact that it came out at the wrong time. It's a film that tells a simple story of one adventure Natasha had in between Civil War and Infinity War.... and that's when this film should have been released - any time in that window. Because watching it now, from start to end the stakes seem laughably low. Once Thanos has shown up in your 24 film series and kicked off Universe-wide stakes that all the heroes, including Natasha, pushed themselves to their limits to stop, watching some plot about some Russian guy who might be able to mind control some people for political gain instills a strong feeling of "why do I care? We already know half the planet will be snapped in a few years" The other MCU content post-Endgame actually makes sense for a post-Thanos world, with the stakes involving a potential multiverse (Far From Home), an actual multiverse (Loki), or in the case of WandaVision, going deeply into the main character's psyche rather than telling a bigger story (though at the same time, it does introduce a larger role of magic and witchcraft, so kinda counts in that way too). Here they don't have big stakes or dive deep into Natasha, really. I guess it tries to kind of tell somewhat of an origin story, but since she's already been in a half-dozen films, they've already kind of doled out where she cames from and what makes her tick in dribs and drabs across various content, which is another thing that makes this film not work. I certainly don't remember all the little details this movie references and I doubt many other viewers did either, so it sort of functions neither as a good standalone film nor as a good important chapter in the overall MCU story. It's just... here. It was nice to be back in the cinemas, for sure, I loved seeing a fun action film with an audience again, but this film left no memborable impression apart from Florence Pugh, really , who was pretty good. I enjoyed her banter with Johannson about her poses and even the bit about the vest worked even though they did force it too hard. Definitely nothing anyone needs to rush out to see.

A great album! Let's hope they also rerelease it on CD.

I like both. Love Jóhannsson's work, love Zimmer (and Wallfish's) work so far.

The sketchbooks are always nice.. but I have that fear as well. The WW84 release was pretty comprehensive, but Dune is sounding like a way longer movie.

I did. I owned many of the action figures (as well as Castle Greyskull), so I'll watch it with a strong sense of nostalgia embedded.

Why do I keep seeing LOTR-related posts every time I open this thread to read about exciting DUNE news and insights?

Haha. Watch. But between all those releases there will still be a great action cue that gets left off. And you’ll have to cut and paste bits of the suites that are from the film into chronological order

Supposedly this is the list of pieces that played during the Opening Ceremony!

The two tracks are cool. I love the textures and soundscape he’s creating. Kind of a mesh of Interstellar, Black Hawk Down, and Gladiator. Melody-wise he seems to be riffing a bit on what I call the “anarchy theme” from TDK with a touch of the mermaid theme from Stranger Tides. Looking forward to the rest of the score and especially looking forward to seeing the film. “Anarchy theme” (0:00-1:25) Mermaid Theme

Indeed, but the story itself was always divided in three parts, narratively speaking

Indeed. The same thing has happened with the Dune, in the sense that it is one book, dividid in three parts. Here in Portugal, some editions have published it in three and now more recently in two volumes

Just came back from the film. It's Jaume Collet-Serra abandoning his usual Besson-inspired style, and trying to do Stephen Sommers-like aesthetics in a combination of THE MUMMY and THE AFRICAN QUEEN. Unlike Sommers, however, he isn't quite adept at treating the pulpy action with a degree of seriousness. This is far more comedic and "light", i.e. wholesome Disney family entertainment. So hokey galore! But entertaining throughout; you always remain curious about the next setpiece. Jesse Plemons does a hilarious riff on Christoph Waltz. CGI is overkill, but production design is excellent. No doubt inspired by the original Disney attraction. James Newton Howard's score was -- like every piece of genre fare he's done in the last 15+ years -- highly uneven. Some great parts, some totally bland. The bland parts include the action music. I mean it's big and bold (plenty of fanfares and cymbal crashes), but no real thematic strength, IMO. The heroic/swashbuckling stuff all seems like notes on a string without any heart (do NOT expect another "Escaping the Smokers" here!). And a little bit of RC elements thrown in. But there were some good parts. JNH always does awe and wonder well, and this is particularly evident towards the end. Best part is undoubtedly the exotic, Latin guitar theme that opens the film - and whose chords are later revealed to be an arrangement of Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters" ("reimagined", as the end credits says, by JNH and the band members). Gets a full metal workout in a flashback scene. That was fun. In short, I'm expecting - like RAYA - to make my own playlist of the highlights that weed out some of the rather generic stuff.

Yes, filmic and accessible, I would say. As others have said in the past, it's often reminiscent of Jabba's music. Cute piece, but not one that wows me or moves me emotionally, really. First version I got was a boot in the 90s with Chester Schmitz, for whom it was originally written. Sound was crappy, of course, but it carried me through to the official Marc Easener version that was released in 2002. That's fine, I don't really need other versions (although being a Norwegian, I've obviously checked out the Baadsvik). It's a popular piece to perform and record, which is understandable since a) it carries the popularity of Williams' name and b) there aren't a lot of tuba concerti out there, relatively speaking.

It was good. The teaser was great. OTOH there were jokes and they made me laugh. I'm not sure how I feel about the narrative of Chani identifying the Fremen as an oppressed people. It's not that they weren't. It's just that I can't imagine any of them saying so. It didn't even seem to be in their vocabulary. You are not wrong.

What do you think of the Baadvisk recording? Williams is quoted as having some appreciation of it.

I dug the trailer! Nice to see some other colours in there and the visuals look great. It's just the final CG suit that seemed a little dodgy to me. Music was very trailer-esque...but looking forward to checking out the Zimmer tracks when they're available here.

To my knowledge I haven't heard any of the music listed on that page, but I see lots of things I now want to check out, starting with the tribute to Octopath Traveler...

Remember the doubts whether Williams would make a good writer about his craft? Throooough the window!

I expect to love this concerto. I will probably love just as much these philosophical musings by Williams on the nature of music. Great, great stuff.

Wow! Now I'm even more pumped for Saturday!

As exciting as these clips have been, I'm getting worried over how fragmented it's seeming from the bits that have been posted. Too many starts and stops for the sake of comedic moments. I'm really hoping there's enough long form sequences that can let the score breathe, since it otherwise might end up just being a substance-less pastiche.

There was a nice chalk drawing at the theater