HOOK (1991) - NEW! 2023 3-CD Ultimate Edition Produced, Edited, and Mastered by Mike Matessino featuring all Williams/Bricusse songs

[Holko 9,529]

7 hours ago, Jay said:

And I'm surprised nobody has commented that there is a track called "Smee's Concertina Medley" and pondered what that could be!

That definitely implies that you like it and want us to be excited about it.

[DangerMotif 1,038]

@JayWill we be able to listen to an interview before we get the CD’s? 
 

[MrJosh 892]

2 hours ago, Bespin said:

 

+10 to Gryffindor for faking that it really interested you.

 

Who can be interested in a source cue played on the accordion?

 

You it seems.

 

Nice sportsmanlike conduct!

Hey, I do legitimately get excited by little things like this. The odd source cue here and there or random previously unknown curiosity are fun!

[mstrox 6,651]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

 

Itysl Interesting GIFfrom Itysl GIFs

 

 

[Amer 2,110]

@Jay, I hope the podcast will cover the VINYL project when it was suddenly announced during the films anniversary timeline and whether its delay had something to do with further recollections on the speed etc...? im vaguely remember this...

 

Also it seems Williams seems to be warming up to the inclusion of songs and source music just as he did with SABRINA release. It's good sign perhaps future project will have the same approach.

 

 

[Incanus 5,715]

14 hours ago, Jay said:

 

And I'm surprised nobody has commented that there is a track called "Smee's Concertina Medley" and pondered what that could be!

I assumed this was some kind of pre-recorded medley of music of Smee playing his concertina, which wasn't ultimately used in the film as he doesn't play one in the movie. Or some such.

 

So much new material on this set to explore.  

[Bryant Burnette 654]

7 hours ago, MrJosh said:

Hey, I do legitimately get excited by little things like this. The odd source cue here and there or random previously unknown curiosity are fun!

 

If John Williams wrote it, I'm interested in it.

[Holko 9,529]

1 hour ago, Amer said:

Also it seems Williams seems to be warming up to the inclusion of songs and source music just as he did with SABRINA release. It's good sign perhaps future project will have the same approach.

I almost dropped my jaw that even the pipe organ Take Me Out to the Ball Game is here.

[crumbs 14,317]

48 minutes ago, Amer said:

Also it seems Williams seems to be warming up to the inclusion of songs and source music just as he did with SABRINA release. It's good sign perhaps future project will have the same approach.

 

Mike clarified that on a podcast a few years back. It's not that Williams is strictly against source music being included, just that he prefers source music that's musically apiece with the score proper (eg. the Azkaban source, which sounds like an extension of the film score).

 

He's less enthusiastic about incidental source music that was intended for a car radio or whatever, and has no musical resemblance to the film score (eg. the Superman source music) but sometimes he allows it (Eiger).

 

On the new Hook specifically, it's kinda miraculous he ticked off the Take Me Out To The Ball Game source, because he specifically asked for that to be removed from the previous LLL expansion. So yeah, he's definitely softened over time!

[QuartalHarmony 543]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

just that he prefers source music that's musically apiece with the score proper

 

I'm sure you're right, but it's always struck me as surprising that he voluntarily included Cantina Band on the SW OST way back in 77. It couldn't be more different to the score proper, either in style or instrumentation. Perhaps the bespoke work that had gone into making it sound slightly off-kilter (the ARP bass, using steel pans in a jazz context etc.) made him want to give it a wider audience.

 

Just imagine if neither Cantina Band track had been on the OST - how desperate would we all have been for them by the time the Arista or RCA releases came out?

 

Mark

[Once 605]

I think it helps that Matessino has arranged the alternate scores cues, source music, album edits and other curiosities into great listening experiences instead of a strictly chronological 'bonus section'. By presenting the music this way it's probably more likely to get Williams's approval.

It almost seems like the more creatively arranged the bonus section/disc is, the more rare curiosities Matessino has managed to get approved.

[bigjimwilson 256]

6 hours ago, Amer said:

@Jay, I hope the podcast will cover the VINYL project when it was suddenly announced during the films anniversary timeline and whether its delay had something to do with further recollections on the speed etc...? im vaguely remember this...

 

Also it seems Williams seems to be warming up to the inclusion of songs and source music just as he did with SABRINA release. It's good sign perhaps future project will have the same approach.

 

 

 

I'd also love to know what was behind the announcement of that 3 disc LP set and its sudden cancellation. And then the Mondo release came along too, with the new OST assembly by Mike... which I believe is the only place we have the OST with the Prologue at the correct speed. But that was taken from the same transfers as the 2cd LLL set? 

It's always fascinating to hear the stories of how releases came to be, and all the little challenges along the way. It was so crazy hearing about the different sources and releases for Superman, and how each time it was put out a better source seemed to immediately come along! And Neil Bulk said something very similar about Batman, and how the Mondo vinyl is now sort of the "ultimate" version of that. I love hearing those tales. 

Can't wait for this set. I'm so excited

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I was the most fascinated to hear about how the JP set came together in terms of track combinations, the legalities of working with music from different owners (and how that frustratingly affects which tracks can be joined) and how Williams had one or two very specific opinions on arranging tracks.

 

So although I'm not currently planning on buying, I'm equally fascinated about how it took 7 years and an evident minefield of stuff, to get this out.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

On 24/11/2023 at 5:19 AM, Presto said:

 

Really, @Presto?

I'll make you an offer, if you don't want it.

I wasn't able to PM you.

[Holko 9,529]

Burn it, Presto! Nobody should have it.

[QuartalHarmony 543]

Since I missed the 2012 release, I've spent the last 11 years conflicted over whether to shell out so much money for what I understand is a flawed release. Since last Friday, I no longer feel that way which is a huge relief.

[Jay 37,369]

That's so awesome!

[BrotherSound 2,242]

While we’re eagerly anticipating the shipment of this new set, care to peek at half of the original CD breakdown?

 

[Madmartigan JC 85]

"Yuppie Sounds" 
They should've kept that title!

[Brando 1,864]

12 hours ago, Holko said:

I almost dropped my jaw that even the pipe organ Take Me Out to the Ball Game is here.

Same! Whenever I imagined how MM would try to win JW over with the source music, I had obviously hoped he would allow both God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen and Take Me Out To The Ballgame, but I hoped that out of the 2, he'd at least approve Ballgame since that one is buried under sfx and cannot be easily ripped from the film audio, like the Christmas carol can, where that you'll only have a bit of reverb and minimal sfx with the cue. Super stoked that we're getting both!!

[Bellosh 3,419]

ordered this.  i hope this is the release that changes my opinion from it's good to i love it.

[Holko 9,529]

21 minutes ago, Brando said:

but I hoped that out of the 2, he'd at least approve Ballgame since that one is buried under sfx and cannot be easily ripped from the film audio, like the Christmas carol can

And we have Gentlemen in Home Alone already anyway

[mstrox 6,651]

Maybe JW mistakenly believes he wrote Take Me Out to the Ballgame.

[QuartalHarmony 543]

1 hour ago, Madmartigan JC said:

"Yuppie Sounds" 
They should've kept that title!

It also looks like the original plan was to release the unedited 4:30 version, rather than the 2:21 version we got. A few other tracks are listed on that document with longer running times too.

 

I wonder if the original plan was to have an even longer release. Two CDs, even?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

8 hours ago, Holko said:

Burn it, Presto! Nobody should have it.

 

Forget that, dude. Some of us aren't interested in the super-duper version.

I'd be happy with the 2-disc set.

[Faleel 5,355]

10 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

Forget that, dude. Some of us aren't interested in the super-duper version.

I'd be happy with the 2-disc set.

I wasn't serious about throwing it away, I would probably sell it, for a fair price (around 10-15$ base)

[Holko 9,529]

19 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

Forget that, dude. Some of us aren't interested in the super-duper version.

I'd be happy with the 2-disc set.

So you're not interested in the actual score assembled with love and care but you'd be happy with a lazy partly film stem-sourced frankenstein with bits chopped out...

Just stick with the OST

[mstrox 6,651]

18 minutes ago, Holko said:

So you're not interested in the [OST] but you'd be happy with a lazy partly film stem-sourced frankenstein with bits chopped out...

Just stick with the OST

 

[Jay 37,369]

The original OST album wasn't a masterpiece of album programming though.  It's a mostly chronological, mostly unedited assembly of cues that happened to have been recorded already when they had to lock a program in order for the album to be in stores the same week as the film, with no concert arrangements or anything specially recorded just for it, and one entire track playing at the wrong speed. 

 

It's very clear to me that if schedules had been different, some of the arrangements we eventually got on the Williams/Spielberg CD probably would have been recorded at the film's scoring sessions, and the OST album would have come out different than it is, certainly including some of the music that hadn't been recorded yet like the climax of the score.

 

The new LLL main program and Disc 3 program are assembled with love and care and are approved by John Williams.

[King Mark 3,631]

Even back when the OST came out it felt crammed and I knew it was missing a lot of highlights. I was already paying attention to this back then.

[Smeltington 1,440]

I feel like the OST does in fact have a lot of my personal highlights from the score. The wrong speed intro kind of kills it though, even if you were happy with the selection. And of course this is one of THE richest scores of Williams' career, so I wouldn't want to be without the most comprehensive version possible. I'd rather hear the whole tapestry than just the highlights, even if I never listened to the bonus tracks (which I probably won't do very often).

 

Speaking of highlights though, the complete finale (post Ultimate War) feels pretty essential to me.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

I've always thought this OST was one of JW's better ones. No unchronological shenanigans mostly, and it tries to cover the entire 'journey'. We Don't Wanna Grow Up is an inexcusable inclusion though.

[King Mark 3,631]

To me Banning Back Home, We dont wanna grow up and When Your Alone kind of ruined the flow  and taking place of more important cues. And I immediately noticed the never feast insert missing.

 

I'm open to include the songs on this edition but I generally don't like songs, especially if they waste underscore space

[Smeltington 1,440]

Speaking of which... is anyone planning on NOT listening to the new songs? Yes, I know it's a big deal, and some people have waited their whole lives for this, but I like JW's tunes better without Bricusse' lyrics. Even though Bricusse will always be a hero to me for Willy Wonka alone. But I think I prefer not hearing lyrics in my head when I listen to the themes from this score.

[King Mark 3,631]

I will, I kind of like that sample

[bollemanneke 3,349]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

Forget that, dude. Some of us aren't interested in the super-duper version.

I'd be happy with the 2-disc set.

Honestly, Holko's right. You really, really don't want to pay for this. The OST is consistently... good. Take that one or the new one, but not the 2012 one.

[King Mark 3,631]

Back when Hook came out I had nobody to complain about unreleased music!

[mstrox 6,651]

32 minutes ago, Jay said:

The original OST album wasn't a masterpiece of album programming though.  It's a mostly chronological, mostly unedited assembly of cues that happened to have been recorded already when they had to lock a program in order for the album to be in stores the same week as the film, with no concert arrangements or anything specially recorded just for it, and one entire track playing at the wrong speed. 

 

It's very clear to me that if schedules had been different, some of the arrangements we eventually got on the Williams/Spielberg CD probably would have been recorded at the film's scoring sessions, and the OST album would have come out different than it is, certainly including some of the music that hadn't been recorded yet like the climax of the score.

 

The new LLL main program and Disc 3 program are assembled with love and care and are approved by John Williams.

 

I was mainly just trolling Matt on this one because he’s so hardline.  I fully expect the main program to be an improvement on the OST in this particular case.  I do want to apologize, since I realize you have some ownership in this situation - I’m not being shitty about the release!  Didn’t think it through.

[MrJosh 892]

Sometimes songs can bug me when interspersed through a score, but for Hook I've always had a fondness for We don't Wanna Grow up and When You're Alone. I'm excited to hear the unused songs and see what they're like. 

[King Mark 3,631]

BTW it's great Jay your working on these expanded editions , you might have some insight into the mind of a JWfan that MM might not even have

[Faleel 5,355]

1 hour ago, Smeltington said:

Speaking of which... is anyone planning on NOT listening to the new songs? Yes, I know it's a big deal, and some people have waited their whole lives for this, but I like JW's tunes better without Bricusse' lyrics. Even though Bricusse will always be a hero to me for Willy Wonka alone. But I think I prefer not hearing lyrics in my head when I listen to the themes from this score.

I want to, just because of the rumors of a rap song.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

1 hour ago, King Mark said:

Even back when the OST came out it felt crammed and I knew it was missing a lot of highlights. I was already paying attention to this back then.

 

The OST came out about 3 weeks before I was born.

[Tydirium 1,167]

Does anyone know the reason why the OST “Prologue” is the “wrong” speed? Did someone in the editing room screw up? Or did Williams decide he liked it slower?

 

And for that matter, why did people assume that it was originally recorded at a faster speed and got slowed down, rather than the possibility that it was recorded at the OST speed, and got sped up for the trailer that everyone got accustomed to? Forgive my ignorance on this.

[King Mark 3,631]

The version in the trailer seems REALLY fast

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

1 hour ago, Smeltington said:

Speaking of which... is anyone planning on NOT listening to the new songs? Yes, I know it's a big deal, and some people have waited their whole lives for this, but I like JW's tunes better without Bricusse' lyrics. Even though Bricusse will always be a hero to me for Willy Wonka alone. But I think I prefer not hearing lyrics in my head when I listen to the themes from this score.

 

I'll listen to them at least once, but I'm definitely going to make a score only playlist and may not revisit the songs very much if at all after first listen.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

51 minutes ago, Presto said:

I want to, just because of the rumors of a rap song.

 

I forgot all about that! 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

51 minutes ago, Presto said:

I want to, just because of the rumors of a rap song.

A what??

[The Lost Folio 183]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

The original OST album wasn't a masterpiece of album programming though.

 

I always considered the original album to be excellent, regardless of the circumstances that led to it. At over 75 min, it was the most generous JW album between Superman and Attack of the Clones! I think the selection of excerpts flows extremely well from beginning to end, edits and all. 

[Goldfingers 126]

3 hours ago, Smeltington said:

Speaking of which... is anyone planning on NOT listening to the new songs? Yes, I know it's a big deal, and some people have waited their whole lives for this, but I like JW's tunes better without Bricusse' lyrics. Even though Bricusse will always be a hero to me for Willy Wonka alone. But I think I prefer not hearing lyrics in my head when I listen to the themes from this score.

 

The songs are integral to Hook essence. Spielberg had a strong desire to turn Hook into a musical.

Choosing not to explore them would mean missing out on understanding the core inspiration behind the movie's themes.
Why would you want to miss out on such a delicious experience?

[Datameister 2,044]

I don't anticipate listening to the songs quite as often as the main program, but they're definitely a huge selling point for this release and I can't wait to hear them. This seems to have all the hallmarks of a truly definitive release and I'm very, very, very much looking forward to the package's arrival!