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I can see that we're not agreeing on the most basic of elements because there's no basis for you to assume that he just treated the project as another job. I suspect that you just resent that Shore wasn't able (or didn't want to) do it and no other composer was going to do a good enough job for you without basically imitating him and changing their style for this project. That's not a fair thing to ask a composer to do.

Thinking more about this, it occurs to me that ROP could use someone of Jeremy Iron's stature. George Lucas was smart of enough to cast Alec Guinness, and Peter Jackson knew what he was doing by brining in Ian McKellen. Both Lucas & Jackson knew that these fantastical stories needed an actor of gravitas to anchor the whole thing. Even Star Trek TNG had Patrick Stewart, and I think people underestimate how much credibility Sean Bean brought to Game of Thrones early on. In fact if you read about the making of GOT, Bean was brought on specifically for this reason. Who is that person in ROP? I don't know man, without serious actors, and without a very grounded production design, the show could very easily slip into generic TV fantasy, no matter the pedigree of the source material.

So the impression I'm getting here is that this would be a lot more uniformly received than divisive if this was a completely different franchise, correct? Given the reactions to the show itself, I do have to ask: is it fair to put this much pressure on McCreary if the series he's scoring might already risk not understanding what makes the franchise work? After all, it's not like he's actually scoring another proper adaptation of an existing text, so is the issue really just that Shore should have a monopoly on everything Middle Earth?

why no sw we want sw

John Powell How To Train Your Dragon How To Train Your Dragon 2 How To Train Your Dragon: The Hidden World Solo: A Star Wars Story 4 masterpieces. 4 of my all time favorite scores. With the 2nd HTTYD maybe at No. 1. The scores make me laugh and cry. And when they're over I'm always left with the feeling that I wished they would go on forever. Just incredible

I don’t have the luxury of living in a world where I don’t have to compare this to Shore. Although I will agree that if I did, I might look on this more kindly. This isn’t just another fantasy score: this is attached to what I consider to be the greatest musical act achieved so far in my lifetime. I would not envy any person in Bear’s position. I understand he has a job and bosses, and I am sure they are very happy and he feels he has done his job, but it isn’t enough for me. This music needed more brain. It has heart but doesn't everything have some of that? It’s almost impossible to write something you don’t care about. The LOTR was smart. This isn’t and that’s what hurts the most. It’s regular, it’s expected, it’s just there for me. Happy for those who hear more but having other people praise it this much does sort of sting. Sauron sounds like such a joke to me, not menacing at all. I wanted so much to like it. I have continued to play it. I just cannot get into the feel of this score. I feel like I am trying to have sex with someone I am not attracted to.

I really wish I could enjoy this as others are but it sounds worlds away from Shore’s sound-world. Literal worlds. I do not hear the similarities that others are suggesting. All massive orchestral music is written for mostly similar instruments and orchestrations but Shore somehow managed to sound different than anything else on the market at the time. His use of intervals and unique instruments and vocalists is key there and clearly that is a skill outside either McCreary’s ability or desire to do. Galadriel simply sounds nothing like the Elven world we know and not in a good way. It sounds like Elven pop music written hundreds of years after the opening of The Fellowship of the Ring. When it should have sounded proto-Elven. The Elves were in decay when we heard what we heard. Intellectually, the music I have heard is relatively barren. The word epic being applied here only makes it worse, as if anything written for forces like this has to be good just because it exists. Are we that desperate for orchestral fantasy music?

Of course we don't like that it throws Tolkien out the window for the sake of generic cliche crap but again you're just wrong about the books.

I think some people are being a bit harsh about the music. I know there are arguments being made that it doesn't sound like Shore, or that it's not what people want from they're Middle Earth music, or that McCreary didn't work hard enough on all of this, or that it sounds to modern... and lots more. But to be honest, I think McCreary is the composer that would come closest to Shore's music and I feel he has done a terrific job. I feel it fits very well in the the musical world of Middle Earth, while still clearly being a McCreary score. We were never going to have a Shore score by another composer, that's not how it works. McCreary wrote one of the best fantasy scores of the last 10 years and that is something he should be very proud of. He works for 13 months on the score. He used text from Tolkien's writing for the vocals (like Shore did). He made sure he used certain instruments or vocals for the different people of Middle Eart (just like Shore did). He put his heart and soul into this music (just like Shore did). Yes, it doesn't sound like Shore, but it does sound like McCreary who has worked on a project that is clearly very special to him. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions. Of course, it's fine if you don't like it. But I think it's unfair to just call McCreary out for not doing 'more'.

McCreary worked on it for over a year. And we haven't even seen the series yet! For all we know, the music works great in the series and McCreary nailed it. But no...on JWforums, we have to assume McCreary was lazy and never took this project seriously...

Well now you've done it, this part will now generate more posts here than the main content of the episode...

Some interesting information posted by Mike Matessino to the FSM thread for the reissue: " Here's the rundown of what happened and my thoughts on it. The originally intended end credits music was the Williams arrangement of "When You Wish Upon A Star," recorded on the second day of scoring, June 3, 1977. By the time it came to preview the film, Spielberg decided to take it a step further, pulling out the Williams arrangement and adding in the actual song as heard in Disney's Pinocchio. The 2-LP assembly of the soundtrack even included it and the rights to do so were cleared. The movie previewed in Dallas on October 13, 1977, and a lot of the reaction cards contained strong negative comments about the song. The knee-jerk response was to not just go back to Williams' arrangement, but to quickly edit together other music to cover the credits. As pointed out, it was parts of "TV Reveals," "Roy and Jillian on the Road," and then circling back to the final part of "Resolution." Another takeaway from the preview was that Arista reps determined that the soundtrack album did not have the same sales potential as Star Wars and so the assembled 2-LP album was cut down to one, and the work was done so fast that for the end credits they simply mixed down what had just been edited for the picture -- the actual film dubbing elements -- and stuck it onto the new album master. That is why "Resolution and End Title" has always sounded of inferior quality on the album. The disco piece was commissioned as part of this, based on how well Meco's Star Wars had done and seeing Saturday Night Fever on the horizon. It was recorded in early November, and the track "Nocturnal Pursuits," created for the newly shortened album, was selected for the B-side of the 45 rpm release. The 7-inch 33 rpm was made for the soundtrack album, but there was nothing on the B-side. Also cut after the preview was the introduction to the Nearys, replaced with a Jiminy Cricket music box playing "When You Wish." This was the solution to the deletion of all the dialogue about taking the kids to see Pinocchio but needing to motivate Ronnie calling Roy "Jiminy Cricket." The music box plays through the whole scene in the 1977 version because they had a certain length of allowable time to use the song once it was cut from the end credits. (The later appearance of the music box was also an insert filmed after the main scene.) By 1980, distanced from the preview reactions and with the film having been embraced, Spielberg put back in the original Neary introduction that had been previewed and went back to his original intention to use "When You Wish." Williams' original ending arrangement was reinstated and he was also able to quote it in his new "Inside" music, recorded in Boston (Spielberg stopping there for the sessions on his way to France to begin filming Raiders). Personally, I like the use of the song and Williams' arrangement, especially with the extra black at the end over which it plays. It's a gentle, tonal bookend to the opening dark screen with the building dissonant chord. It has meaning to this story that connects music with transcendence. The edited music that they changed it to is just tracked music to run over credits, entirely utilitarian. The Williams arrangement is only heard on the 1980 version of the film, but to me it belongs there and is my preferred ending. That's just my opinion about it. For those who want the crossover from "Contact" to "End Title," the re-creation of the album track is at the end of La-La Land's CD2. The only reason they were combined together initially, even on the scrapped 2-LP album, is because the first cue also uses "When You Wish" and therefore the song could be cleared for one track rather than two. But things are a bit different now with these limited editions when it comes to derivative tracks - it was easier to clear the song for an extra track than it was to create a derivative track that exceeded 5 minutes and pushed it into the next mechanical rate tier. Plus the clean ending to "Contact" would not have otherwise been heard on the first disc. " https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=148453&forumID=1&archive=0

The latest episode is now up, a conversation between Maurizio, Tim Burden, and Mike Matessino about the Spielberg/Williams collabration. Great stuff! https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2022/08/20/spielberg-williams-podcast/

I agree insofar as it sounds so different to Shore. There had been an attempt to emulate his palette: so we have male vocals for Dwarves, aethereal sounds for Elves, mock-Celtic stuff for Hobbits. But the way its composed and orchestrated makes it sound irrecovably different, with any similarities seemingly more a matter of coincidence than anything else. I think it would be a perfectly nice soundtrack (the saccharine nature of the Hobbits' material notwithstanding) if we weren't inclined to compare it to Shore, and its a comparison we're all the more drawn to make because Shore provided the opening credits. We've seen other composers entering a pre-existing sound world before with Star Wars - where some composers (namely John Powell) fit in very well while others not so much. Nevertheless, in the Star Wars case the general sound is this very familiar, late Romantic "Golden Age Hollywood" sound that all film composers had been reared upon, whereas Shore's orchestrations are anything but; and so McCreary's score was bound to sound incongrous with Shore's.

The problem with the fourth one was that it never really feels like a coherent story that ties characters, plot and themes into any sort of whole. It's just a string of ideas from various writers clumsily jumbled together. With a good script, no one would complain about UFOs, setting or villains, I can guarantee that. The idea can be as silly or goofy as they want as long as the execution is graceful. Karol

OK I've read through the recent posts on this page twice and I don't understand the confusion that's going on here Can somebody break down for me like I'm 5 what the confusion is?

I'm going to play my "I liked Garfield before it was cool" card. I liked The Amazing Spider-Man more than any of the Maguire films. I think he got the character of Peter more. ASM2 was not good. And then we have the MCU movies that are really good with Homecoming being by far the best. That's a good point about the Avengers. But then that's been an issue with the stand alone films since the first Avengers. Winter Soldier? Hellicariers falling from the sky in America's capitol? Where is Iron Man?

So let me get this straight -Bear makes a 37 track, 149 minute album that is the most common one, available on the widest variety of digital platforms -On Amazon streaming, you get 39 tracks instead, the same 37 as the normal album, plus "Find The Light" and "The Promised King". OK, annoying but I get it -On physical CD we get 38 tracks, but its not the standard album with one bonus track - it drops 3 tracks on the standard album available everywhere ("Cavalry", "The Broken Line", "Where The Shadows Lie"), adds one of those Amazon mp3 exclusives ("The Promised King"), and then also adds 3 tracks you can't get anywhere else ("In Defiance of Death", "Riding at Dawn", "The Breaking of the First Silence"). I guess you couldn't fit all 42 total tracks onto two CDs but man, this is all very frustrating...

Jeremy Irons is, of course, stellar. But the Borgias got way too soap-operaish for my taste, and I eventually gave up on it. And I say this as someone who loves historical dramas. There's no wondering about it, he would have killed! But would I trade Lee's performance for Irons? Nah.

Jeremy Irons is a titan even among giants. I watch The Borgias almost annually.

It hasn’t even been out long enough to say that. What makes this any better than say, a Two Steps to Hell album? Or any recent videogame score thats lauded, like those of Jeremy Soule? Is this better than Debney’s Lair? I don’t think any of us can tell if its a good score until we hear it in context, thats least of all. but it isn't unfair to compare to Shore Its just an unfortunate reality. Life isn’t fair

Hmmmmm. The thing is though, critical reappraisals happen all the time in art, including cinema. There are plenty of films that weren't well received at all upon release that have gained stature through the years, and some are even now regarded as classics. So while a film may not become intrinsically, or "objectively" better over time, let's also remember a film in one sense is also only as good or bad as we judge it to be, or in larger terms, what kind of public and critical consensus forms about a film. And one of the primary ways we judge whether a film is good is by way of comparison. In fact, the whole discussion of McCreary's ROP score is underscored, fairly or not, mostly in comparison to Shore's. So for some the SW Prequel Trilogy may gain stature in comparison to the Sequel Trilogy, or some of the things we didn't like about older Star Trek shows may not look so bad in comparison to the new shows. I've often asked myself if I might have liked PJ's Hobbit more (and I've never hated it) if we'd never gotten his Lord of the Rings. And to be honest, I think the answer to that is probably...yes. By almost any standard, The Hobbit trilogy could be called one of the greatest fantasy films ever made, but for comparison to LOTR, which is a masterpiece. Because let's face it, the list of truly great fantasy films isn't a long one. So yeah, I welcome a reassessment of The Hobbit (which I'm sure is already occurring), and perhaps some people who judged it harshly, including me, might be more forgiving of its flaws in comparison to Rings of Power.

Given the rest of the Score, no, he could have not. Despite his promise, there is no indication that McCreary is able to capture Howard Shore's sound. I know this sounds like nitpicking, but one thing that puts me off about the score is McCreary's use of percussion. It's ironically one of the things that I find most un-Shoreian about the music. The Lord Of The Rings uses a very limited amount of percussion, that is very precisely placed, and doesn't ever come to the foreground. It's for the most part deeper percussion that blends well with the mid-low range of the orchestra. Shore rarely uses smaller cymbals that stick out as clichėe classical music. He mostly uses tam-tam or gong, which add to the weight, and underline the music almost subconsciously. Whenever I hear those small crash cymbals, or the very close-mic plucked harp or such, I immediately think "that's not right." Bear McCreary sounds a lot more like standardized orchestral classical music, and less like Shore's Middle-Earth. I think some people still don't understand how unique Shore's music is and how recognizable it is. It would really not have been hard to sprinkle more in there. For instance, it's not hard to get more of those wonderful aleatoric backings in, or some of those thick divisi strings.

KOTCS is a way over-hated flick. It's not that bad.

So compared to a unified master tracklist, the digital release has 5 missing tracks. The amazon release has 1 full exclusive and 3 missing tracks. The CD has 3 full exclusives and 4 missing tracks. The LP thankfully has no exclusives and 21 missing tracks. If you want everything available, you need the CD and the amazon release. If you want everything except 1 track in better than mp3 quality, you need the CD, the digital and the amazon.

LOTR:TROP TRACKLIST WITH THEMES TIMESTAMPED Episodic tracklist can be found here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QX0kWPgZu7VWoF7VwnQEKT6nGGi7YmlJaC6ttofS5ZY/edit?usp=sharing 01. The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power Main Title (no themes) 02. Galadriel 0:00-0:20 Galadriel Ostinato Harp, strings 0:20-0:43 Galadriel A Horn 0:43-1:07 Galadriel A Flutes/Strings 1:07-1:29 Galadriel B Low Strings 1:29-1:52 Galadriel A Strings 1:52-2:14 Galadriel Ostinato Strings 2:16-2:40 Galadriel A Horns 2:40-3:08 Galadriel A Horns, strings 3:08-3:35 Galadriel Ostinato Harp 03. Khazad-dûm 0:00-3:06 Khazad-dûm Ostinato (starts and stops through whole track) 0:15-0:44 Khazad-dûm A Male voices (0:24 Baruk Khazâd) 0:44-0:59 Khazad-dûm B Male voices 0:59-1:13 Khazad-dûm A Male voices 1:17-1:25 Khazad-dûm A Brass 1:25-1:40 Male voices stuff 1:40-2:08 Khazad-dûm A Strings 2:08-2:24 Khazad-dûm B Female voices 2:24-2:52 Khazad-dûm A Strings 2:52-3:14 Khazad-dûm C Mixed choir 04. Nori Brandyfoot 0:00-2:47 Nori Brandyfoot Accompaniment (starts and stops through whole track) 0:11-0:40 Nori Brandyfoot A Recorder 0:52-1:21 Nori Brandyfoot A Strings 1:21-1:47 Nori Brandyfoot B 1:47-2:11 Percussion Stuff 2:11-2:45 Nori Brandyfoot A Recorder 05. The Stranger 0:00-4:54 The Stranger Ostinato (starts and stops through whole track) 0:14-0:40 The Stranger A 0:40-0:56 The Stranger B 0:59-1:10 The Stranger A 1:10-1:25 Stuff 1:25-1:36 Stranger winding scale 1:36-2:01 The Stranger A 2:01-2:18 The Stranger B 2:18-2:30 The Stranger A 2:33-2:45 The Stranger A 2:48-3:11 The Stranger C 3:11-3:28 Stuff 3:28-3:54 The Stranger A 3:54-4:09 The Stranger B 4:09-4:35 The Stranger A 06. Númenor 0:00-0:20 Númenor A 0:21-0:42 Númenor A 0:42-1:01 Númenor Chords (Csus4-C-Ab, often plays under Númenor themes) 1:01-1:20 Númenor A 1:25-1:40 Númenor A 1:40-1:49 Númenor Finale 1:49-2:08 Númenor A 2:08-2:28 Númenor A 2:28-3:01 stuff 3:01-3:20 Númenor B 3:20-3:44 Númenor A 3:44-4:03 Númenor A 3:44-3:53 Númenor B 4:03-4:19 Númenor Finale 07. Sauron 0:00-2:27 Sauron Ostinato (starts and stops through whole track) 0:10-0:39 Sauron A Male voices 0:47-1:18 Sauron A Male voices 1:18-1:39 Sauron B Female voices 1:50-2:21 Sauron A Brass 08. Valinor 0:00-0:30 Valinor A 0:30-1:00 Valinor A 1:00-1:31 Valinor B 1:31-2:01 Valinor A 09. In the Beginning 0:00-0:22 Valinor Voices 0:22-0:40 Valinor Voices 0:40-0:56 Valinor Strings 0:56-1:07 Valinor Strings 1:07-1:27 Galadriel Flute 1:27-1:55 Galadriel/Sauron Ostinato (Sauron pitches, Galadriel harmony) 1:59-2:03 Stranger winding scale? 2:10-2:45 Galadriel Horn, flutes/strings 2:45-3:18 Galadriel Horns 3:18-3:38 Sauron Ostinato 3:42-3:55 Galadriel Brass 3:55-4:45 Stuff 4:45-5:04 Sauron Ostinato 4:45-5:07 Galadriel Low Strings 5:07-5:33 Galadriel High Strings 5:36-6:11 Galadriel Brass, Strings 6:31-6:44 Sauron Ostinato fragments 7:02-7:15 Galadriel Brass 7:19-7:32 Galadriel Brass 10. Elrond Half-elven 0:00-0:28 Elrond A Flute, clarinet 0:28-0:43 Stuff 0:43-1:07 Elrond A Strings 1:07-1:26 Elrond A Strings/reeds 1:26-2:03 Elrond B Horn, horn/reeds 2:03-2:25 Elrond A Strings/choir 2:25-2:46 Elrond A Strings/choir 2:54-3:19 Elrond A Flute 11. Durin IV 0:00-1:58 Durin IV Ostinato 0:17-0:35 Durin IV A 0:35-0:44 Durin IV B 0:44-0:53 Durin IV A 1:07-1:26 Durin IV A 1:26-1:34 Durin IV B 1:34-1:43 Durin IV A 2:02-2:24 Durin IV A 2:24-2:36 Durin IV B 2:36-2:58 Durin IV A 12. Harfoot Life 0:00-2:17 Harfoot Compound Meter (5/8-6/8) 0:13-0:46 Harfoot Life 0:46-1:16 Harfoot Life 1:32-2:17 Harfoot Life 13. Bronwyn and Arondir 0:00-0:18 Bronwyn and Arondir Intro 0:18-1:00 Bronwyn and Arondir A 1:00-1:41 Bronwyn and Arondir B 0:00-2:24 Bronwyn and Arondir Intro 1:45-2:24 Bronwyn and Arondir A 14. Halbrand 0:00-2:43 Southlands/Halbrand Accompaniment (starts and stops through whole track) 0:04-0:56 Southlands/Halbrand A 0:56-1:30 Southlands/Halbrand B 1:30-2:24 Southlands/Halbrand A 2:31-2:51 Southlands/Halbrand A 15. The Boat 0:08-0:43 Valinor 0:43-0:54 Galadriel 0:54-1:37 Valinor 1:37-1:58 Stuff 1:58-2:19 Valinor 2:28-2:30 Strings going Di di di didididiiii 2:40-3:15 Chugging strings 3:23-3:42 Sauron Ostinatio 3:25-3:42 Galadriel 3:42-3:56 Triumphant music 16. Sundering Seas 0:00-0:39 Stuff 0:25-0:39 Galadriel 1:11-1:36 Galadriel 1:36-1:55 Southlands/Halbrand 2:04-2:20 Stuff 17. Nobody Goes Off Trail 0:00-0:32 Harfoot Life 0:32-1:16 Harfoot Life 1:21-1:42 The Stranger Ostinato 1:27-1:49 The Stranger 1:56-2:06 Stranger winding scale 2:12-2:25 The Stranger 2:38-2:48 Stranger winding scale 2:51-3:20 The Stranger 3:27-3:34 Nori Brandyfoot Accompaniment 3:34-4:20 Nori Brandyfoot 18. Elendil and Isildur 0:00-0:45 Elendil and Isildur A Trumpet 0:03-3:47 Elendil and Isildur Guitar (starts and stops through whole track) 1:04-1:50 Elendil and Isildur A Strings, brass 1:50-2:31 Elendil and Isildur B 2:50-3:47 Elendil and Isildur A Trumpet/strings, strings 19. White Leaves 0:00-0:13 Stuff 0:13-0:48 Galadriel 0:43-1:06 Númenor 1:06-1:20 Númenor 1:20-1:43 Elendil and Isildur Guitar 1:43-2:32 Elendil and Isildur 2:48-3:15 Númenor 3:20-3:32 Númenor 3:32-3:46 Galadriel 3:46-4:12 Númenor chords 4:12-4:34 Númenor Finale 4:19-4:34 Númenor 20. The Secrets of the Mountain 0:00-0:27 Khazad-dûm Ostinato 0:27-0:44 Wondrous music 0:58-1:09 The Rings of Power Chords/Arpeggios Choir 1:20-1:48 Khazad-dûm A Low strings 1:50-2:12 Khazad-dûm A Oboe 2:25-2:47 Khazad-dûm B One of few times a B theme appears in the score 2:47-2:48 Khazad-dûm A Flutes/Harp 2:57-3:37 Khazad-dûm Ostinato 3:30-3:43 Khazad-dûm A Brass 21. Nolwa Mahtar 0:00-0:28 Nolwa Mahtar (0:16 Ai Valimar!) 0:54-1:23 Nolwa Mahtar 1:23-1:48 Nolwa Mahtar 22. Nampat 0:00-0:31 (Nampat sha ghash, Nampat burzum akh x4) 0:32-1:00 Orcs/Adar Pan flute 1:03-1:36 (Nampat sha ghash, Nampat burzum akh x4) 1:36-1:58 Orcs/Adar Brass 1:58-2:14 (Nampat sha ghash, Nampat burzum akh, Nampat sha ghash, Nampat Nampat Nampat) Black Speech verbs have an -at ending (durbat, gimbat, thrakat, krimpat), so “Nampat” is probably a verb. 23. A Plea to the Rocks 0:00-2:00 Female choir song 0:30-0:40 “Nolwa Mahtar”? 2:06-3:34 Sophia Nomvete song 24. This Wandering Day Megan Richards song: The sun is fast falling beneath trees of stone The light in the tower no longer my home Past eyes of pale fire, black sand for my bed I’d trade all I’ve known for the unknown ahead Call to me, call to me, lands far away For I must now wander this wandering day Away I must wander this wandering day Of drink I have little, and food I have less My strength tells me no, but the path demands yes My legs are so short, and the way is so long I’ve no rest nor comfort, no comfort but song Sing to me, sing to me, lands far away Oh, rise up and guide me this wandering day Please promise to find me this wandering day At last comes their answer, through cold and through frost That not all who wonder, or wander are lost No matter the sorrow, no matter the cost That not all who wonder, or wander are lost 25. Scherzo for Violin and Swords 0:25-0:30 Galadriel 1:42-1:47 Galadriel 26. Sailing into the Dawn 0:14-0:20 Southlands/Halbrand 0:20-0:52 Númenor 0:54-1:23 Númenor 1:23-1:38 Númenor Finale 1:43-2:06 Elendil and Isildur 1:45-2:04 Elendil and Isildur Guitar 2:19-3:02 Galadriel 3:02-3:08 Southlands/Halbrand 3:14-3:28 Númenor Chords 3:31-4:00 Númenor 4:00-4:05 Númenor Finale 27. Find the Light 0:00-0:48 Halbrand Accompaniment 0:10-1:20 Halbrand 1:30-1:39 Halbrand 1:42-2:03 Elendil and Isildur? 2:58-3:20 Halbrand (in major) 28. For the Southlands 0:20-0:25 Trumpet going Di di di didididiiii 0:28-0:39 Orcs/Adar 1:11-1:22 Halbrand 1:26-1:53 Stuff 1:53-2:05 Sauron B? 2:18-2:24 Bronwyn and Arondir 2:50-3:12 Bronwyn and Arondir 3:09-3:12 Halbrand Accompaniment 3:12-3:29 Halbrand 3:43-4:25 Bronwyn and Arondir 29. Cavalry 0:15-0:25 Númenor 0:25-0:38 Galadriel 0:38-0:54 Stuff 0:54-1:05 Númenor 1:25-1:28 Elendil and Isildur 1:28-1:33 Bronwyn and Arondir 1:38-1:40 Galadriel 1:40-1:44 Elendil and Isildur 1:44-2:22 Stuff 2:23-2:24 Elendil and Isildur Guitar 2:24-2:35 Elendil and Isildur 2:36-2:41 Southlands/Halbrand 2:41-3:04 Stuff 3:04-3:11 Southlands/Halbrand 3:40-3-50 Galadriel 30. The Promised King 0:00-0:25 Galadriel 0:56-2:15 Southlands/Halbrand 2:57-3:34 Southlands/Halbrand 3:45-3:58 Bronwyn and Arondir 31. Water and Flame 0:00-1:24 Stuff 1:24-1:32 Númenor Finale 1:32-3:24 Stuff 32. In the Mines 0:00-0:32 Durin IV A 0:00-0:50 Stuff 0:50-1:24 Elrond 1:24-1:48 Durin IV A 1:48-2:14 The Rings of Power/Arpeggios Choir 2:20-2:28 Durin IV A 2:35-2:45 Durin IV A 2:45-3:07 Durin IV Ostinato 3:15-3:46 Durin IV A 3:16-3:32 Durin IV Ostinato 3:46-4:08 Durin IV B 4:10-4:28 Durin IV A 4:28-4:52 Stuff 4:52-5:07 The Rings of Power Chords/Arpeggios Choir 5:07-5:43 Stuff 5:43-5:59 Elrond 6:00-6:10 The Rings of Power Chords Reeds 6:10-7:00 Dwarven chanting 6:30-7:08 Durin IV A 7:08-7:19 Durin IV A 7:20-7:33 Khazad-dûm 7:33-8:10 Stuff 33. The Veil of Smoke 0:00-1:08 Elendil and Isildur 0:04-0:37 Elendil and Isildur Guitar 1:22-1:40 I recognize this but can’t tell from where??? 1:40-2:20 Bronwyn and Arondir 2:20-2:30 Galadriel 2:42-2:59 Númenor 3:26-4:50 Southlands/Halbrand 34. The Mystics 0:00-0:51 The Mystics Slow chant 0:53-1:13 The Mystics Fast chant 1:30-1:56 The Mystics Slow chant 2:18-2:30 The Mystics Slow chant 2:34-3:10 The Mystics Fast chant 3:10-4:18 The Stranger 4:40-4:45 Stranger winding scale 4:53-5:00 The Stranger 5:00-5:18 (Black Speech) 5:07-5:18 Sauron Ostinato 5:18-5:45 The Stranger 5:48-6:00 The Stranger Ostinato 6:03-6:20 Nori Brandyfoot 6:50-7:49 Harfoot Life In Quenya, “iluisa, iluvatar, ilucara” means “omniscient, all-father, ominificent” 35. Perilous Whisperings 0:08-0:24 The Rings of Power Arpeggios Choir/strings 0:19-0:24 Southlands/Halbrand 0:38-1:15 The Rings of Power Chords/Arpeggios Choir/strings 0:43-1:03 Sauron B 1:52-2:08 The Rings of Power Chords/Arpeggios Strings 2:08-2:16 The Rings of Power Chords/Arpeggios Choir/strings 2:27-2:35 Southlands/Halbrand 36. The Broken Line 0:06-0:42 Valinor 0:42-0:53 Discordant reeds 0:53-1:02 Galadriel 1:09-2:26 Valinor 2:26-2:43 Galadriel 2:43-2:50 Discordant reeds 3:00-3:09 Galadriel 3:09-4:20 Sauron 5:05-5:13 Galadriel 5:15-5:43 Sauron Ostinato 5:20-5:43 Sauron 37. Wise One 0:10-0:18 The Stranger 0:26-0:46 The Stranger Ostinato 0:36-0:55 The Stranger 1:08-1:21 Nori Brandyfoot A 1:36-2:24 Harfoot Life 2:27-2:40 Nori Brandyfoot Accompaniment 3:13-4:07 Nori Brandyfoot A 4:07-4:43 Nori Brandyfoot B 4:43-4:58 Nori Brandyfoot A 5:22-5:30 Nori Brandyfoot A 5:32-5:57 Nori Brandyfoot Accompaniment 6:00-6:44 Nori Brandyfoot A 7:12-7:30 Nori Brandyfoot Accompaniment 7:12-7:25 Nori Brandyfoot A 8:03-8:40 Nori Brandyfoot A 38. True Creation Requires Sacrifice 0:21-1:08 Galadriel 1:30- 1:46 Elrond 1:47-2:32 The Rings of Power Chords/Arpeggios Choir/strings 2:13-2:41 The Rings of Power Brass 2:45-3:00 The Rings of Power Arpeggios Strings 2:52-3:00 Galadriel 3:00-3:08 Flutes going Di di di didididiiii 3:00-3:33 The Rings of Power Chords/Arpeggios Strings/brass 3:51-4:17 The Rings of Power Arpeggios Slower strings 4:39-5:03 The Rings of Power Violin 5:15-5:35 The Rings of Power Arpeggios Strings 39. Where the Shadows Lie 0:00-2:45 The Rings of Power Chords Choir (starts and stops through the whole track) 0:08-0:42 The Rings of Power A Violin 0:42-1:06 The Rings of Power B Violin 1:08-1:39 The Rings of Power A Strings, horns (half speed) 1:39-2:03 The Rings of Power A Violin 2:05-2:30 The Rings of Power B Violin 2:48-2:58 The Rings of Power A Female voices

JWFan has partnered with the LA Philharmonic and Allied Marketing to give away two tickets to see the "Maestro of the Movies: Celebrating John Williams at 90" concert with at the Hollywood Bowl on Sunday, September 4th, 2022! To enter, visit JWFan's social media accounts! https://www.instagram.com/p/Chb9rYHIQhC/ https://www.facebook.com/JWFan/posts/pfbid0uimqpthZYckh1fSwCazfi17u49E1rbJRMRduzke5hRdRZ8DfUXktLFjdrtowupQXl ENTER TO WIN! Tag a friend you'd bring with you in the comments for a chance to win a pair of tickets to Maestro of the Movies at the Hollywood Bowl on September 4th! This annual event celebrates John Williams, Hollywood's most influential composer, at 90. Don't miss the chance to hear the scores of blockbusters such as Jaws, Star Wars, Harry Potter, and Indiana Jones performed live by the LA Phil. We'll pick a winner on Thursday, August 25th, 2022! Didn’t win? Head to https://bit.ly/Allied_Maestro to buy tickets today! More About The Show: Maestro of the Movies: Celebrating John Williams at 90 (September 2 -4) You know a John Williams score the moment you hear it—and if you’re a fan of blockbusters, you’ve heard quite a few. Jaws, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Indiana Jones: He scored them all and so many more. On three nights at the Bowl, the LA Phil will perform some of his biggest movie hits, including selections performed with film clips.

TBH I didn't like either of those two singles when I first heard them. But they opened up when I listened to the album. Now I really like both, but particularlyGaladriel. Unfortunately I think it does just come down to taste though, and I think you should take more care not to conflate taste with a composer's effort. I absolutely feel Bear has produced a career highlight here.

If you can get into some of Williams' more gnarly action and underscore cues then you can get into his concertos. I recognize a lot of similar gestures and just, like, how he moves music along between his scores and the concert works. You could always try to imagine your own film accompaniment cutting along to the music! I would also advise you to just listen to the slow movement from the Trumpet Concerto over and over and over and over and over...

There is no “right” or “wrong” approach when it comes to listening to any music. You should not feel lacking in knowledge or expertise if you find hard to connect with some of the above-mentioned concert works. When it comes to Williams, it’s understandable to feel this way because most of his film music (especially the most popular pieces) is so immediate and tuneful while also being sophisticated and refined in its craft, so we can relate to it very quickly and easily. Plus, most of it is associated with films that are imprinted in our memory to the point it feels part of our DNA, so to speak. Williams’ works for the concert hall (especially the concerti) belong to a very different category, they’re mostly abstract in their nature and detached to any programmatic nature (i.e. music that purposefully describes a specific picture). You should just try to sit down, listen to it and focus on how this music makes you feel (while trying also to appreciate its intrinsic musical qualities). You should start focusing on the aspects that you like or speak more directly to you. If it feels harder to grasp them, don’t feel diminished by it. Sometimes works of art need time to unlock our souls. Not everything is immediate. Back in the day I too found difficult to tune in with some of those concert works, but time really helped in finding more and more beauty in them to the point that nowadays I find them as engaging and stimulating as his film music and sometimes even more. Give yourself time ☺️

He did nothing wrong other than produce a score that a few people obviously don't like, in a way that someone might not like a particular composer's style. The similarities to Outlander, TWD, etc, are all there. He was hired as they liked his sound, but knew he could still write for orchestra and choir. I don't even know what the hell 'television writing' is supposed to mean, and if 'modernisations' just mean a few string ostinatos then you're cementing the notion that how Bear does action isn't for you.

Quite. You won't hear, I imagine, either myself or Blondheim or anyone else compare Leonard Rosenman's music to Shore's because they clearly worked on separate, different projects with different styles; which is NOT the case here.

Why say lot word when few word do trick This makes perfect sense to me. As Mike said, patience.

Well look, Amazon invited these comparisons when they hired Shore to do the theme, John Howe to do the art, filmed in New Zealand, hired a cast of people who look like their film counterparts, and created a production and creature design that looks like the films. If people are now comparing all this to what they've done to the films, it's fair, and Amazon has only themselves to blame. I don't, and I don't agree that this series is a "part" of the film's whole. The series isn't connected with the films, despite Amazon's wink & nod approach to making it feel that way. I'd rather they'd have carved out a new vision of Middle-Earth rather than copying Jackson's. A copy is never as good as the original, so take a risk and show us something wholly different.

FYI, Mike offers a wide-ranging talk here, focusing on the recent reissues (E.T., JP, CE3K), but also putting the entire Spielberg-Williams collaboration in historical context. It's almost a lecture in film and film music history. I mostly listened to his brilliant observations, so you won't hear much blabbering from me Mike also took the chance to clarify some of his previous comments about future expansions and releases.

People have been banned for far less.

It cannot solve the screenplay but that 4K release at least solved one major issue with the movie and it's way more acceptable look-wise now.

I think the issue is that he is following in the footsteps of something truly masterful. There are plenty of things he could have done to have been more in line with Shore. It was always doomed to be “less than” but it could have been more than this “less than” I think its a little crazy not to compare them. I listen to Johan de Meij’s LOTR symphony and never compare it to LOTR by Shore, they are completely different adaptations. But this is clearly intended to look close enough to be connected, to invoke Jackson, to invoke Shore. Why else Main Title it? McCreary just emulated it in the most shallow of ways, I think. Choir = elves. Male choir = evil. I expected television writing but I was hoping that the source material would inspire him to do more than just his job earning a paycheck. This could have been and should have been Bear’s chance to do an opera that didn’t succumb to modern scoring techniques. There’s no place for them in Middle Earth. And I would hope he’d agree. I was excited when I heard him announced but disappointed when the singles dropped. Im still listening to it, hoping something will click but honestly, its just depressing me how far from what I wanted this is. I am not even as upset with the show choices as many others but man, when Galadriel and Sauron dropped, I suddenly felt the truth: that this would be nothing like what I wanted to hear. If it was a concept album of music Bear just felt inclined to write, I might place it on a pedestal near videogame scores or Two Steps but as a piece of LOTR music, it holds no artistic value for me. I have never been more disappointed in the reality of a scoring assignment. This was the opportunity of a lifetime. I wish Bear had taken the full extent of that opportunity and not just done “well enough”

The issue is less with themes, and more that McCreary did little to speak the language of Shore's music.

At least that gave us this brilliance:

I a little wrap up of the CDs from 2015/2016... which I purchased in the last months... Yes I'm a little late in my listening sessions! Ryuchi Sakamoto - Music for Film (Fantastic album conducted by Maestro Brossé, I love his re-recording series!) James Horner - The pagemaster (That's a great Horner to meet you at last!) Thomas Newman - Finding Dory (Nice fish music!) Jerry Goldsmith - Fim Music Suites (from the Blue Max re-recording, conducted by Raine, I always forget that 2nd CD!)

I would go one step further and say, it's impossible to be given the opportunity to write a sort of Tolkien opera and not have some heart in it. All composers have more or less personal voices, and I think Bear McCreary has enough skills as a composer to understand Howard Shore's music and carry over if not all, then at least some tapestry of his. So there is only the question how willing he is to do so. I also think McCreary is a smart enough guy to understand that Fans expect, if not outright themes, then at least a type of music for certain things. Again, when people wondered what kind of theme Numenor would get, I don't think anyone thought "some egyptian music would be great". The thing is, Shore's music rarely goes into pure underscore-mode. There is rarely just pure unrelated underscore. With this score, mostly also because the themes have relatively standardized language, there is tons of boring underscore.

You half-jest but I can totally see that being a thing. I actually don't like fandom's tendency to swing around in response to bad entries - I don't think Attack of the Clones is one iota less bad because The Rise of Skywalker is terrible, for example - but if this show is what it takes for people to see the value in good films that have been (I would argue) viewed through the wrong lens, then so be it. Certainly, there is some ground for comparison: both projects have involved a great deal of elaborating upon what's on the page, both start at a time of relative peace in Middle Earth: the plot of the opening episodes seem to be akin to An Unexpected Journey insofar as a character (Galadriel in this, Gandalf in The Hobbit) tries to shake people out of their complecency and tell them that Sauron had indeed returned. There are some plot similarities, too: the Bronwyn-Arondir affair is sure to make people think of Kili and Tauriel, I think. Jackson even had experimented in Laketown with implementing diversity into Middle Earth in a way that Amazon are now using as a blanket solution across their entire project. I actually think its The War of the Rohirrim that could benefit enormously from this: some YouTube channels already turned the whole thing into Rings of Power versus War of the Rohirrim situation, which I don't think is the case: if anything, Warners hope to ride the coattails of the show's success. But artistically, The War of the Rohirrim, with its smaller scope (one movie, focused almost entirely on Rohan) and lesser emphasis on fantasy, could be quite an antidote to The Rings of Power's attempt to gobble up as much of the "Middle Earth formula" and the project's very overt fantasy feeling. Again, there are some similarities: its crazy to me that The Rings of Power are seemingly doing a Helm's Deep-esque siege while Kamiyama is gearing up to make another actual siege of Helm's Deep in his film. Still throwing me off that the movie's animated, but so be it.

An e-mail I received earlier this evening: Dear Film Music Fans, Chris Siddall Music Publishing is proud to announce that the Legends of the Fall study score is ready for pre-ordering. Horner's weighty and heart-breaking score is a symphonic masterpiece of thematic beauty and elegance. From "The Ludlows" and "To the Boys" to "Samuel's Death" and "Revenge", every note of James Horner's spectacular score is presented in stunning detail. Please visit ChrisSiddallMusic.com and be the first to own this classic masterpiece today. 223 pages, 9x12 inches. Paperbound, printed in the U.K. $85.00 Available Worldwide Note: Shipped from the UK. Please check with your country for import tax before ordering. This charge will be in addition to the item cost and shipping cost and varies by country. https://www.chrissiddallmusic.com/store/p86/Legends_of_the_Fall_In_Full_Score.html Orders for Legends of the Fall are expected to ship week commencing 5th September 2022.

Well, look at the bright side Chen...this show is sure to cause a positive reappraisal of The Hobbit Trilogy.

I think having a chacter literally fall into the story from the sky is cheap storytelling: outside of Terminator movies, we'd consider that a silly conceit in any movie or show. I think all the Harfoot stuff looks incredibly cutesy and cloying - and that impression is only heightened by the saccharine music McCreary saw fit to give them: you get that its the impression he got off of those scenes. And I think creating a convoluted backstory for Mordor whereby it was appearantly this verdant piece of land that was suddenly transformed. I mean, its like how Fantastic Beasts did a backstory for Nagini or how Solo gave the Falcon's computer a backstory: its just...overwriting, in screenwriting terms. Those three things make me incredibly wary for the writing. Personally, more and more am I getting the impression that these two showrunners got swept-up in the excitement of making a fantasy series, and are going to give us something which - in the way its plotted and designed - is very self-consciously fantasy.

So there are already 4 different editions for this soundtrack: the standard digital release, the Amazon digital release and the two Mondo releases on CD and vinyls and none of these releases have the same tracklist. Here's a quick spreadsheet we've just made with @Holko that makes it a bit easier to understand: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pc2505rCFwq0W2rHfmsdaPdyQy4WPVrAbv2NXfrlgHM/edit?usp=sharing

If McCreary's 15 themes are on this album. I think the following tracks might be suites. These are the most obvious Galadriel Khazad-Dûm Nori Brandyfoot The Stranger Númenor Sauron Valinor Elrond Half-Elven Durin IV Harfoot Life Browyn And Arondir Halbrand Elendil And Isildur Not sure about these White Leaves (Maybe a theme for Telperion or the Two Trees Of Valinor) Nolwa Mahtar?