John Powell on working with John Williams for 'Solo'

[chinaismine 64]

Quote

“It was one of those things where you get a call from your agent saying ‘Would you… be interested in?’ And the thing they said upfront was ‘Would you be interested in doing this? And John Williams might write a tune for it?’ […] And they were kind of very upfront about it, they said ‘We’d like John to write a tune, are you ok with that?’ So I couldn’t stop laughing, I said ‘Why would I not be ok with that?’ […] I’ve said this before, it was like they said ‘You wanna hang out with Yoda?’ sort of thing, and then know the things you’ve always wanted to know but you don’t. And that was the main thing for me. And he [John Williams], very kindly actually, he called me. He said ‘I just wanna check that you’re ok with this.’ And again, I couldn’t stop laughing, and said to him ‘If they want me to do this film, my first responsibility is to the film and hence my first responsibility is to make sure you come on board with this.’ That would be the best film for the film, I truly believe that.”

Quote

“Once he came onboard and wrote these things, we went and did a demo session. A demo session for me and the rest of the world is we have a bunch of equipment and we kind of play around with it and we make it sound a bit like an orchestra, and everybody listens. A demo session with John is you go into Sony and you record with an orchestra. So we went for ‘demo session’ and we had about six queues throughout the movie, and two themes, and it was all there. We kind of sat there and were like ‘yeah, ok.’ Once I heard all that, I knew exactly what to do. I mean, it wasn’t easy from that point on, but I just felt like I had all the stakes on the ground and in the right place, and everything was everything was in the right shape.”

Quote

Another interesting detail he shared is the fact that originally in the album, they were going to include a small piece that was sort of a reverse-Imperial March (a jovial version of the song, instead of a menacing one), which was a quick gag they made up on the spot to ridicule the English Empire, as well as an homage to one of Williams’ favorite pieces of music. But before they finished the album, Williams got wind of it and went “What the hell is this?” so they took it out (though it is in the film itself). By that point, the movie wasn’t done, so they couldn’t really put it into context. Later, when Williams saw the movie, he liked it and for that reason, that tune made it into the Deluxe Edition of the album (called “Empire Recruitment”).

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2021/04/solo-composer-john-powell-talks-about-his-score-lord-would-return-to-score-a-solo-disney-plus-series.html

[Richard Penna 2,639]

Quote

But before they finished the album, Williams got wind of it and went “What the hell is this?” so they took it out (though it is in the film itself).

 

I had the interview on in the background on Friday, and as soon as Powell said that, I immediately wanted to know what JW's 'diplomatic' version of “What the hell is this?” is 

[Jurassic Shark 9,811]

7 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I had the interview on in the background on Friday, and as soon as Powell said that, I immediately wanted to know what JW's 'diplomatic' version of “What the hell is this?” is 

 

I'm suspecting he's a bit more upfront when not giving interviews.

[Alex 2,525]

“What the hell is this?” was also his reaction when he heard Rogue One for the first time.

[GerateWohl 2,856]

Just now, Alex said:

“What the hell is this?” was also his reaction when he heard Rogue One for the first time.

I keep hearing that. Is there any real evidence that Williams didn't like the Rogue One score or how his themes were treated there?

[crumbs 12,973]

7 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I immediately wanted to know what JW's 'diplomatic' version of “What the hell is this?” is 

 

Probably along the lines of, "oh John, that music at the very end is interesting... very interesting indeed... perhaps you could completely remove it?"

[bored 229]

25 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I keep hearing that. Is there any real evidence that Williams didn't like the Rogue One score or how his themes were treated there?

 

I wouldn't be surprised. I still don't remember anything from Rogue One's score. I even gave Jyn Erso's theme another listen and I still don't remember it. 

 

It is pretty funny how they kept checking with Powell whether it was ok to write with the most famous film composer ever. It's the film score equivalent of "Do you want to be taught by Stephen Hawking? Are you sure that's really what you want?"

[Loert 2,334]

1 hour ago, superultramegaa said:

It is pretty funny how they kept checking with Powell whether it was ok to write with the most famous film composer ever.

 

For JP and us here at JWFan, it seems self evident to want to work with John Williams. But somebody like Brian Eno would think very differently.

 

Besides, some professionals may simply take it the wrong way when you suggest they work with another professional, particularly by someone like JW who poses a threat to their "ego". On the other hand, JW is JW...and if I were in JP's place I would probably have the same reaction. In fact, I'd probably think of it as a complement.

[Doug Adams 483]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I keep hearing that. Is there any real evidence that Williams didn't like the Rogue One score or how his themes were treated there?

The Rogue One stories are indeed true. Same thing happened back on Shadows of the Empire, although in that case it was too late to change anything. Rogue One, on the other hand, had to be largely rewritten. 

[gkgyver 1,643]

12 minutes ago, Doug Adams said:

The Rogue One stories are indeed true. Same thing happened back on Shadows of the Empire, although in that case it was too late to change anything. Rogue One, on the other hand, had to be largely rewritten. 

 

Was Williams happier after the rewrites? 

[Jay 32,104]

11 hours ago, chinaismine said:

six queues

 

Six cues.  Not six queues.

[Doug Adams 483]

15 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

 

Was Williams happier after the rewrites? 

 

Happier, yes. Happy, no.

[Jay 32,104]

On 5/10/2018 at 5:25 PM, deleted account said:

I can tell you definitively that JW had approval over the score for Rogue One, and that cues had to be rewritten on short notice to his approval

 

On 5/11/2018 at 12:22 PM, deleted account said:

As I heard it explained to me, JW became aware of certain decisions that had been made by the final composer for R1 and was not happy with the way elements from his original scores were being integrated into a score being credited to someone else and that changes had to be made either to the music or to the credits.  The decision was made to change the music.

 

I think JW's feelings about the final score can be inferred from the fact that it was not included in the program of SW films performed live in NYC last fall, despite Disney's wishes that it would be.

 

In defense of the final composer for R1, given the politics of the situation at that point in the process, I'm not sure anyone except William Ross would have been a satisfactory  choice for JW, who I have inferred was very unhappy with the way things were handled with the score for that movie from the very beginning (very much like Shadows of the Empire).

 

As far as JW approving Powell for Solo, I don't know the details.  I do know Ron Howard depends very much on Zimmer for all his musical decisions now, and that HZ vouched for Powell.  I also infer that, based on his recent announcement that after Ep 9 he will be retiring from SW films, JW has realized that Disney is going to keep cranking these things out long after he has become an ex-parrot, and that it was as good a time as any to let go his desire to try and keep some sort of quality-control over the material.

 

I also suspect that JW writing the Solo theme was an effort to placate him after the disruptions he may have caused late in the game on R1.

 

On 5/11/2018 at 1:25 PM, deleted account said:

I do not believe JW had anything to do with AD's involvement, or eventual lack of involvement, with the film.  AD was hired by Gareth Edwards because of their previous working relationship on Godzilla.  Also, KK had worked with him on Benjamin Button and considered him a friend.

 

I do know that Tony Gilroy, who eventually took over the film in many ways, has a long-standing relationship with JNH and that JNH's schedule prevented him from even being considered for the scoring duties if AD was replaced.

 

I have inferred that JW was not annoyed that AD got the boot, so to speak.  

 

JW apparently tried very aggressively to get the job to score Deathly Hallows, but that JKRowling did not want an American composer.  I do not know what that means in terms of JW's opinion of AD's work, but I can imagine that, like any human being, there is some healthy competitive judgement there.

 

I have also heard that JW was asked to score Jurassic World.  He turned it down but lobbied hard for William Ross to get the job in his stead.

 

Put all this together and you get a situation where people's egos, intentions, and an enormous amount of money are on the line.

 

JP was hired for Solo by the original directors, and when they were fired, JP assumed he might be too.

 

As long as JW is alive and well, anyone else scoring a SW movie is stepping into a tangled mess of corporate directives conflicting with artistic ambitions.  As a famous orchestrator observed to me, right now scoring a star wars movie is job "you can only fuck up" 

 

On 5/11/2018 at 4:54 PM, deleted account said:

it is a confirmed fact within the business that JW pursued scoring the final chapter of the HP series of movies.  It is also a proven fact that he was not successful in his campaign to do so.  The explanation I was given by people who would know is that JKR, for whatever reason, wanted someone else.   I added my "apparently" qualifier because I did not hear this directly from JKR herself.  (Other things that I have said "definitively" have come from direct personal experience or from citable quotes in interviews with the actual people involved.)

 

Perhaps some confusion has arisen among readers here because when JW was expressing his interest in Deathly Hallows it was not confirmed as a 2-part film yet.  I don't believe Part 6 had even come out yet when JW began inquiring about it.  So DY's comments about Part 2 would not necessarily be a factor in the decision made after HP6 that resulted in AD instead of JW.  

 

[Based on a quick google search, the decision to split DH into 2 parts was announced in March of 2008, the decision to hire Desplat was announced in January of 2010.  DH (the book) was published in 2007, so it's entirely possible JW's people began sending feelers out to the filmmakers in 2007 about having him score the last film (again, not knowing it would be 2 films at that time).]

 

People contradict themselves later in life all the time.  JKR could certainly have felt one way about the music for DH and another about the music for FB, the same way Lucas vowed on 60 minutes in 2005 that there would never be an Ep 7, and if there was it would never be about Luke Skywalker and company (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W4Eew8WJoU).  Perhaps JKR felt that the HP series developed a stronger tie with English and European craftsman over the course of its run, and that the FB movies would be better served by an American composer since the story took place in America.

 

 

On 5/23/2018 at 2:24 AM, deleted account said:

when Desplat was hired, Rogue One had not yet been filmed and it's tone was intended to be very dark and very serious.  After TFA's mega-success, Disney was taking no chances and wanted R1 to feel more like a traditional Star Wars movie, not less.  Key to this was doing a score in the vein of JW, something AD explicitly said he didn't want to do when he was hired.  Disney and Lucasfilm gave AD every chance to keep the job, but in the end, he just wasn't willing to write the music they wanted.  JW had nothing to do with the decision, he wasn't a "music consultant" on the film or anything like that.  In fact, JW was...perturbed, let's say, that he was never offered the movie, as he had come to regard Star Wars as his musical universe (ref the ruffled feathers over Shadows of the Empire).

 

During the recording of MG's score for the film, JW learned that there were major quotes of his themes in the score, and for reasons you can read in other threads on this board, those themes were removed and replaced at the last minute by original material by MG.  JW also had control over what films were done live to picture in NYC last fall, and what films were not.

 

However, AD did not spend a year working on the picture.  He spent a year *thinking* about working on the picture, but by his own admission, he does most of his writing in the last three weeks of the schedule (one example: http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-30413134).  Part of the reason he does this is that it leaves the directors less time to give him notes and meddle with his music, a choice I can definitely relate to.  He's learned how Hollywood works and knows if he gives them too much time to rethink things, directors create a lot of busy work for every one around them in stead of trusting the people they hire.

 

 

On 5/23/2018 at 12:48 PM, deleted account said:

AD was offered and took the job because he had worked with Gareth Edwards on Godzilla.  Having already followed JW's footsteps with Harry Potter, he made it clear on this one he wanted to make his own contribution to the Star Wars universe of music, rather than just ape JW's style.  To that end, he insured with the filmmakers that he wasn't going to use JW's themes or style.  This is all fine with everyone involved at this point because the movie is SUPPOSED to feel different.  He doesn't want any SW music used in the temp scores, he wants to do his own thing.  Now, a year or so later, Disney has mandated that the film's tone needs to be completely rethought, including the music, which should feel like Star Wars.  They don't mean a quote of the Imperial March here or there, they mean a ground-up rethinking of the film's score to be comfortably in the Star Wars style, to do what AD considered to be "aping" JW's sound.  The entire temp was redone from scratch using over an hour of JW"s scores from the 70's.  The way Hollywood works, if AD says "no, I quit", he gives up the balance of pay due him.  If he refuses to quit and waits to get fired, the studio has to pay him the balance he's owed.  So, savvy businessman he is, AD understands he has no reason to give up on his ideals of not imitating JW - if he sticks to his guns, the studio will either back off and let him write what he wants, or fire him and he gets paid anyway.  Up to this point, the Oscar-winning AD had never been fired from a project, so he felt bulletproof.  On top of that, the longer Disney waits to replace him, the less time the replacement has to write a score, something which also works in AD's favor.  The filmmakers dragged their feet on this decision for over a month, from August to September of 2016.  Part of the reason was loyalty to AD, part of the reason was that R1 had already replaced so many key people on the film that they feared replacing another would doom the film's publicity.  In the end, no one wanted to insult anyone, no one wanted to hurt anyone else's careers, so they allowed the story to be that AD had to leave due to scheduling, which is all fair and good, and minimized the damage done to the publicity by making it AD quitting the movie rather then being fired.

 

On 5/24/2018 at 1:39 PM, deleted account said:

On 5/23/2018 at 2:37 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

@elvisjones, can you elaborate on why JW had the "major quotes" of his themes removed from Rogue One? Was it a case of the themes not fitting the scenes, or was he being a bad sport because he didn't get to write the score?

 

My understanding is that the nature of the quotes in the original versions of the cues was such that JW felt it was a direct presentation of his music rather than an oblique reference to it.  Basically, if the score to R1 was going to use actual pages from JW cues from other Star Wars movies, the credits for the music on the film would need to be rewritten (i.e. Music by John Williams, arranged and adapted by....), giving JW top billing on the music card.  This would probably have also meant even more expense for Disney in the form of some kind of payment to JW.  The easiest solution was to remove these major quotes and replace them with less derivative music.

 

By major quotes, I mean the way JW's Superman theme was used in Superman Returns (which literally used the conductor's score for Superman March), only more intrinsic to the fabric of the entire score.  The term I heard used was "cut-and-paste" in reference to the way JW Star Wars themes were being quoted.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't blame JW if he WAS being a "bad sport".  He's a human being like the rest of us. 

 

On 4/14/2019 at 5:32 PM, deleted account said:

I also know for a fact that JW was not crazy about any aspect of the music situation on R1, even before MG was hired.  However, currently, Lucasfilm seems to be going to some length to placate JW, (perhaps because he supposedly almost quit ep 9 when he learned JJ was coming back).  It's obvious he's not going to be around forever, and my guess is when JW passes on, MG will be brought in to the SW musical universe a lot.

 

On 4/15/2019 at 12:45 AM, deleted account said:

If JW and MG are such buddies, why has no live-to-picture concert for Rogue One been done?  MG is constantly doing these, you would think R1 would be done too.  We all know the prequels haven't happened because no sheet music exists that matches the films due to all the heavy music editing (and even pitch shifting in EP 3) done.  The reason Ep 7 is possible live is that they did all the orchestration and sheet music in a computer originally (the prequel scores were orchestrated by hand using pencil and paper) and conformed it as they recorded the cues expressly for the purpose of potential live-to-picture concerts.  By the way, MG always reserves a day at the end of this recording session blocks to do just that - conform his sheet music to the final versions of the cues recorded for potential live-to-picture concerts.  I know for a fact he did this on R1 too.

[Disco Stu 15,475]

With Desplat replaced once again on Black Widow, I can't imagine he's itching to try working with Disney again.  Unless that was a less fraught replacement?  I don't know the full story there.

[gkgyver 1,643]

If JW was perturbed having not been asked to do Rogue One, I'm positive he was hired for Indy 5 to not have a Rogue One situation again.

 

And JW allegedly almost quitting Episode IX because JJ was coming back brings warmth to my heart. 

No wonder that one turned out so anonymously.

[GerateWohl 2,856]

HOW DID THE MANDALORIAN SCORE MANAGE TO PASS THAT QUALITY ASSURANCE!!!!!!

[Smaug The Iron 436]

Just now, GerateWohl said:

HOW DID THE MANDALORIAN SCORE MANAGE TO PASS THAT QUALITY ASSURANCE!!!!!!

Because it's great!!!

[Jurassic Shark 9,811]

17 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

HOW DID THE MANDALORIAN SCORE MANAGE TO PASS THAT QUALITY ASSURANCE!!!!!!

 

I guess since it's a TV score, it doesn't get submitted to the same scrutiny.

[Disco Stu 15,475]

That is a good thing.  Let the artists have their own voices.

[Jurassic Shark 9,811]

These shows will be forgotten in a few years anyway.

[Muad'Dib 1,659]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

perhaps because he supposedly almost quit ep 9 when he learned JJ was coming back

 

WAIT WHAT

 

So on the AFI when JJ's talking, Johnny's thinking "thank God that nightmare is over..."

 

Oh sweet summer child, he didn't know...

[Tom Guernsey 1,760]

Fascinating stuff, thanks @Jay for looking up all these references. At the risk of going a bit further off topic, I'm surprised JW was that upset by the way Shadows of the Empire turned out (unless it was just down to not being asked rather than what Joel McNeely wrote). The way JW's themes are quoted in SotE is either essentially a direct, credited quote or otherwise a relatively unadorned statement (to the extent that it would have been nice if McNeely had done more). Again, credited.

 

Further, McNeely's score leans heavily on Prokofiev and Walton, much in the same way that Williams himself leaned on Holst, Stravinsky, as well as Prokofiev and Walton for the original trilogy. Xixor's Theme from Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet (is there a single work by a classical composer more heavily referenced?!) and the action music is heavily influenced by the ballet The Quest by Walton and I'd be shocked if Williams hadn't been influenced by that work, albeit in a less specific way, when writing the original trilogy scores, in addition to the more obvious reference point of Walton's ceremonial music.

 

McNeely clearly understood and appreciated the musical references Williams used when writing the original trilogy and so took the same approach with SotE and, to my mind, did so pretty effectively. Arguably, Williams did a better job of filtering those references into his own voice whereas McNeely is a bit closer than would be ideal at times, but ensures the music inhabits a neo-romantic sound world that continues what Williams started.

 

I guess JW cares/d a lot less about Superman as Ottman's re-harmonisation of Can You Read My Mind is horrible. Not sure if that was a Bryan Singer directive or Ottman's own choice, but ditching those luscious seventh chords in the harmonies totally kills it. I can't imagine anyone would get away with (for example) re-harmonising Leia's Theme or the main Star Wars theme like that.

[GerateWohl 2,856]

36 minutes ago, Smaug The Iron said:

Because it's great!!!

You may believe it is. But it is not what I would call a Star Wars score.

 

19 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I guess since it's a TV score, it doesn't get submitted to the same scrutiny.

And it is avoiding any original Star Wars themes. Maybe that is how they got away with it.

The only good thing about the Mandalorian score that I can say, that it doesn't even try to pretend to be something similar to Williams scores for Star Wars. The only convincing parts of the score are these where Göranson does his world music instruments and percussion sound scape. Everytime he starts some adventurous fanfares and orchestra classical music imitation stuff it gets a little bit embarressing in my oppinion.

[Jurassic Shark 9,811]

32 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

 

WAIT WHAT

 

So on the AFI when JJ's talking, Johnny's thinking "thank God that nightmare is over..."

 

Oh sweet summer child, he didn't know...

 

I guess being diplomatic is partially how JW made it to the top in Hollywood and stayed there for half a century.

[Evanus 189]

I've been wondering about the Mandalorian too. Hell, they even send Williams the videogame stuff to approve, at least with Battlefront. So I imagine he's at least aware of what's happening with the TV shows?

[Falstaft 1,816]

2 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

McNeely clearly understood and appreciated the musical references Williams used when writing the original trilogy and so took the same approach with SotE and, to my mind, did so pretty effectively.

 

25 years later and I am discovering new, extremely specific classical musical references in SotE, not just Walton and Prokofiev, but Ravel, Respighi, Frank Martin... Heck, just today, I was listening to John Corigliano's 1st Symphony and noticed that this section is where McNeely clearly derived this dissonant episode in Xizor's Theme. Honestly, a little crass on McNeely's part considering the subject matter of Corigliano's work.

 

As to the topic at hand, I can't help but wonder what portions of the "original" MG Rogue One score were deemed too referential to Williams's music to require rewrites. Perhaps the beginning of the sequence on Mustafar, which has, IMHO, some of the most embarrassingly poor scoring in the entire franchise.  

 

And I'm glad JW gave the okay for the Edwardian Imperial March in the end -- it's delightful and quite skillfully done, and clearly affectionate towards both Williams and Elgar.

[TSMefford 1,437]

Thanks for all that info @Jay I didn't know all of that. Even the Potter stuff I had managed to never hear before.

[gkgyver 1,643]

Sounds like Williams doesn't want any other composer to use his themes with similar/same orchestration in sequel scores without him, Williams, being involved or approving it. 

 

This may also explain Jurassic Park 3, where he collaborated with Don Davis, and every subsequent Harry Potter score not using Williams themes much except for a token appearance or two. 

 

And Indiana Jones V. 

 

Anyway, admirable, JW at his age preserving his legacy. 

 

May be a good indication that JW is aware of modern film music and doesn't want that dreck near him. 

[Fabulin 3,442]

20 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

May be a good indication that JW is aware of modern film music and doesn't want that dreck near him. 

"Thin-chested", as he supposedly described it to ASM

[bored 229]

17 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

This may also explain Jurassic Park 3, where he collaborated with Don Davis, and every subsequent Harry Potter score not using Williams themes much except for a token appearance or two. 

 

 

Well, if he really is responsible for the lack of thematic continuity in Harry Potter, and not just the studio heads failing to pay for the rights to use his themes, then I'm certainly not a fan of that mindset. I get why he'd be pissed about composers plagiarizing his orchestrations, but not allowing them to just use his themes seems a bit over-protective. 

[bruce marshall 1,261]

Finish the damn thing already#😵

[gkgyver 1,643]

42 minutes ago, superultramegaa said:

 

Well, if he really is responsible for the lack of thematic continuity in Harry Potter, and not just the studio heads failing to pay for the rights to use his themes, then I'm certainly not a fan of that mindset. I get why he'd be pissed about composers plagiarizing his orchestrations, but not allowing them to just use his themes seems a bit over-protective. 

 

He may not be convinced the composer can do his music justice. 

 

And neither would I, if I looked at Nicholas Hooper. 

[MrScratch 293]

Why would JW almost quit because JJ came back to direct 9?  Seemed like they got along fine.

[Tom 3,715]

1 hour ago, MrScratch said:

Why would JW almost quit because JJ came back to direct 9?  Seemed like they got along fine.

Let's say your boss tripled your workload and for reasons having to do with his own lack of foresight.  Would you be cool with that?  

[King Mark 3,225]

if we get these complete TFA recordings one day it was worth upsetting JW

[Tom 3,715]

We might get the complete TFA, but I do not think we will ever get the complete ROS.  I think the music would reveal a climax with Anakin and the Emperor or such that Disney would prefer remains buried forever.  

[Romão 2,184]

I have no idea how this segment passed JW's scrutiny. It's one of the worst treatments of a JW theme I have ever heard:

 

 

[BrotherSound 1,989]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

We might get the complete TFA, but I do not think we will ever get the complete ROS.  I think the music would reveal a climax with Anakin and the Emperor or such that Disney would prefer remains buried forever.

There’s really no reason they’d actually have to give anything away just for an expanded release:

• Approaching the Throne (Alternate)
• The Force Is With You (Alternate)

[Jay 32,104]

2 minutes ago, Romão said:

I have no idea how this segment passed JW's scrutiny. It's one of the worst treatments of a JW's theme I have ever heard:

 

It's real bad. 

[Bellosh 1,953]

17 minutes ago, Romão said:

I have no idea how this segment passed JW's scrutiny. It's one of the worst treatments of a JW theme I have ever heard:

 

 

 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,156]

17 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I had the interview on in the background on Friday, and as soon as Powell said that, I immediately wanted to know what JW's 'diplomatic' version of “What the hell is this?” is 

 

"What in the absolute FUCK?"

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,479]

Deleted Account reads like fanmade drivel.

 

I doubt JW really had anything to do with Rogue One, ever saw it or would even know what it is if questioned about it.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,771]

Who the hell is deleted account? Sounds like a TF.N ghost.

[bruce marshall 1,261]

7 hours ago, MrScratch said:

Why would JW almost quit because JJ came back to direct 9? 

JJ kept shining  a flashlight in.his eyes?

[A Farewell to Kings 3,801]

3 hours ago, Romão said:

I have no idea how this segment passed JW's scrutiny. It's one of the worst treatments of a JW theme I have ever heard:

 

 

Thanks for that

[Tom Guernsey 1,760]

10 hours ago, Falstaft said:

 

25 years later and I am discovering new, extremely specific classical musical references in SotE, not just Walton and Prokofiev, but Ravel, Respighi, Frank Martin... Heck, just today, I was listening to John Corigliano's 1st Symphony and noticed that this section is where McNeely clearly derived this dissonant episode in Xizor's Theme. Honestly, a little crass on McNeely's part considering the subject matter of Corigliano's work.

 

Gosh I hadn't spotted the Corigliano lift... it's such an incidental (and I don't meant that in a bad way) part of the symphony that you'd easily miss it. I think I'd spotted Ravel previously now you mention it although not Respighi or Martin, any chance of a steer on which works to listen to? (Not to drag McNeely, I'm just curious). Funnily enough, been listening to Respighi's Roman Trilogy a lot recently...

[crumbs 12,973]

It's interesting how little Fallen Kindgom relied on Williams' themes compared to Jurassic World. Yeah, I guess the first film was intentionally hitting you over the head with the musical nostalgia, and the sequel rightly heads in a new direction, but I don't remember any Williams material in FK that wasn't a direct cut & paste of his orchestrations from JP/TLW. There were no Giacchified interpretations of JW's melodies to be found (at least none that I can remember) unlike the first film, which was a bit more "fluid" with re-arranging Williams' material -- that bizarre TLW reference springs to mind.

 

Gotta wonder if that's a coincidence or a post-Rogue One directive...

[oierem 102]

Really interesting info, @Jay, but I do have to ask if you vouch for the credibility of that deleted account. I'm not denying its credibility, I just want to know if its a legit source of information. 

[Smaug The Iron 436]

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

It's interesting how little Fallen Kindgom relied on Williams' themes compared to Jurassic World. Yeah, I guess the first film was intentionally hitting you over the head with the musical nostalgia, and the sequel rightly heads in a new direction, but I don't remember any Williams material in FK that wasn't a direct cut & paste of his orchestrations from JP/TLW. There were no Giacchified interpretations of JW's melodies to be found (at least none that I can remember) unlike the first film, which was a bit more "fluid" with re-arranging Williams' material -- that bizarre TLW reference springs to mind.

 

Gotta wonder if that's a coincidence or a post-Rogue One directive...

I think it is the exact opposite. 

Jurassic World has more direct cut & paste from Williams then Fallen Kingdom. 

JW

 

 

FK 

at 0.43

At 00.15 and 1.20

 

[crumbs 12,973]

Maybe JW just doesn't consider his ownership of the Jurassic scores in the same ballpark as the Star Wars scores, given the time scales.