Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!

[Tom 4,664]

You sux.  

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Tintin, KotCS, and DoD are all awesome 

[TolkienSS 407]

Tintin is a way, WAY, WAAAAY better score than Dial Of Destiny. Which is, not only but also, underlined by the fact that DoD rips it off.

Tintin is a gem.

 

This isn't.

[iamleyeti 114]

5 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I hate that jungle chase scene and utterly despise the Mutt as Tarzan moment, but at least JW's score is really good. He brought life and excitment to a scene that didn't have any of these things.

 

My (overblown and pretentious) take is that John Williams is the only storyteller left in Hollywood. He is the only person telling a story in the last Star Wars movies…

[Tydirium 1,167]

44 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

Tintin is a way, WAY, WAAAAY better score than Dial Of Destiny. Which is, not only but also, underlined by the fact that DoD rips it off.

Tintin is a gem.

 

This isn't.

 

I first saw DOD Friday, rewatched Tintin Sunday, and then just watched DOD again tonight for a second time. I much prefer DOD’s score. Tintin doesn’t have “Helena’s Theme.”

[Schilkeman 964]

I've listened to the soundtrack five or six times, but I like to sit with a score for a few weeks before I really decide anything about it. It is much more subdued than I was expecting, but the artful efficiency of Helena's Theme is really lovely to hear, and how it is woven into the score is delightful. It's too early for me to say how it ranks in the series, but I'm enjoying it. It'll be nice to own the cd so I can stop listening to music on YouTube.

[Dave Norris 18]

18 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

Absolutely incredible interview! Mangold not just geeking out about working with Williams but providing genuine insight into their process and how involved Williams was. First time I've heard about him watching dailies while production was ongoing and formulating the score during production.

 

Also fascinating is Mangold voicing his frustration at JW's initial soundtracks being so incomplete (and often filled with non-film cue suites), name-dropping LLL for coming to the rescue, while lamenting it takes 20+ years for JW scores to receive expansions. Mangold's one of us!

 

He has enough clout to speak to LFL/WDR/JW about changing this situation (at least for the Indy scores) so let's hope conversations are happening in the background. But it might be a good time for everyone to dust off their Twitter accounts and tell him how badly we want these expanded...

 

Mangold's exact comments for anyone who can't listen:

"It's forever to my chagrin that they release these albums, you know the initial release, that are like 10 or 11 tracks of John's music... but there's always these suite versions of the music. And then later, 20 years later, they'll release the full La La Land Records 96 cue versions... you know, those are the things you gotta have because they have all this incidental stuff he does that's just... brilliant."

I dk happen to know that Mangold is a faithful La La Land customer 👍

[Romão 2,274]

1 hour ago, Dave Norris said:

I dk happen to know that Mangold is a faithful La La Land customer 👍

 

 

They did expand the score to 3.10 Yuma, which is a film directed by Mangold, so there was probably some interaction between him and La La Land 

[Darth Mulder 154]

22 hours ago, Trope said:

I found this comment under a YouTube video which mentioned JW's score for Dial as being relatively simplistic and forgettable. Is there any evidence to support this claim that JW no longer orchestrates his own scores and relies on other composers to realise his piano sketches?

 

John Williams is a member of Remote Control Production. He adopted the practices of Hans Zimmer. JW is seriously at the end of life in decline as some people say. This YouTube comment is proof. It must be true when it is written on the internet. There is no doubt about it. 

[filmmusic 1,836]

3 hours ago, Tydirium said:

 

I first saw DOD Friday, rewatched Tintin Sunday, and then just watched DOD again tonight for a second time. I much prefer DOD’s score. Tintin doesn’t have “Helena’s Theme.”

To each his own I guess.

For me:

Tintin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DOD

 

Tintin has the brilliant main titles music, and Snowy's theme in which I LOVE those piano passages.

[Damien F 1,742]

I was thinking yesterday about where DOD would rank among JW's later years franchise scores, i.e. DOD and the Star Wars sequels. For fairness, I'm only considering the OSTs because the sequels have a lot of great music that have only been heard in leaks, FYCs, and an isolated score track. Obviously we don't have any of that for DOD (yet).

 

I think I would rank the DOD OST below the TFA OST but above the TLJ and TROS OSTs.

[BB-8 3,479]

On 03/07/2023 at 12:33 PM, Quppa said:

https://audioboom.com/posts/8327053-episode-376-james-mangold-on-the-music-of-indiana-jones-the-dial-of-destiny

 

New episode of Soundtracking with Edith Bowman: 'James Mangold On The Music Of Indiana Jones & The Dial Of Destiny'.

 

 

 

[BB-8 3,479]

CD spoiler:

 

 

Source:

Sarah Willis among the horns...

[Tydirium 1,167]

23 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

CD spoiler:

 

 

Source:

Sarah Willis among the horns...

She’s listed in the film credits too.

[BB-8 3,479]

Just now, Tydirium said:

She’s listed in the film credits too.

I was concentrating on the music but my wife pointed that out during the end credits.

 

That's a fine couple of JW-stalkers...Anne Cookies Mutter and Sarah Mouthpiece Willis!

[Demodex 557]

On 30/06/2023 at 1:35 AM, Jay said:

 

18, 3-17,2,1

 

Wait. A JW OST that is mostly in chronological order?  😳

[BB-8 3,479]

The more I listen to Helena's Theme, even after having heard it live in Milano and being startled by the Korngoldian nostalgia, I only now realise that this is actually very melancholic music.

[Tydirium 1,167]

Jon Broxton’s review is up, for those interested:

 

https://moviemusicuk.us/2023/07/04/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-john-williams/

[Lao Che 86]

A very cool alternate CD cover by Tony Stella, fantastic artwork..!;)

[BB-8 3,479]

I may be going mad but I seem to hear notions of Ravel's Bolero in Archimedes' Theme.

[Mr. Who 919]

14 hours ago, Tydirium said:

 

I first saw DOD Friday, rewatched Tintin Sunday, and then just watched DOD again tonight for a second time. I much prefer DOD’s score. Tintin doesn’t have “Helena’s Theme.”

I really like DOD but Tintin is one of JW’s best scores IMO!

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Why would anyone compare the animated film score to  Indiana Jones score. So different approach and they are both so brilliant. Negative vibe for DOD and back then Tintin got also very bad comments of course, classic JWfan.com.  Weird place.

[Edmilson 7,466]

2 hours ago, Tydirium said:

Jon Broxton’s review is up, for those interested:

 

https://moviemusicuk.us/2023/07/04/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-john-williams/

Did he got the themes right? 

[paleo 63]

The Filmtracks review is up.

...and I am not convinced regarding its theme analysis.

[Tydirium 1,167]

Clemmensen’s review is up:

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/titles/dial_destiny.html

[Romão 2,274]

Tintin has a pretty much perfect album. A complete edition is one of my holy grails, for the extra music and specially the alternates, but I'm really, really fond of the OST presentation 

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

14 hours ago, Darth Mulder said:

 

John Williams is a member of Remote Control Production. He adopted the practices of Hans Zimmer. JW is seriously at the end of life in decline as some people say. This YouTube comment is proof. It must be true when it is written on the internet. There is no doubt about it. 

 

I encountered another one of these maroons on Reddit. He said that the 67 minute OST was all of the music John wrote for the movie and that the reason the other hour+ worth of music wasn't on the album is because it was written by William Ross. They're posting this BS with full confidence and don't even pretend to walk it back when they get called on it.

 

13 hours ago, Damien F said:

I was thinking yesterday about where DOD would rank among JW's later years franchise scores, i.e. DOD and the Star Wars sequels. For fairness, I'm only considering the OSTs because the sequels have a lot of great music that have only been heard in leaks, FYCs, and an isolated score track. Obviously we don't have any of that for DOD (yet).

 

I think I would rank the DOD OST below the TFA OST but above the TLJ and TROS OSTs.

 

I agree. I would rank them:

 

TFA

TDOD

TROS

TLJ

[King Mark 3,631]

I still think The Raiders March on NewYork1969 sounds a bit "thin". Is it a brass only arrangement ? I can't hear any strings and it sounds kind of like  marching band arrangement

[TolkienSS 407]

7 hours ago, Tydirium said:

Clemmensen’s review is up:

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/titles/dial_destiny.html

 

That moron is really putting Dial Of Destiny and Crystal Skull on the level of The Last Crusade.

[crumbs 14,317]

2 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

That moron is really putting Dial Of Destiny and Crystal Skull on the level of The Last Crusade.

 

You know, it's alright to have differences of opinion without making disparaging remarks and insulting people.

[BB-8 3,479]

12 hours ago, Tydirium said:

Jon Broxton’s review is up, for those interested:

 

https://moviemusicuk.us/2023/07/04/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-john-williams/

I couldn't agree more.

[Chewy 2,391]

2 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

That moron is really putting Dial Of Destiny and Crystal Skull on the level of The Last Crusade.

Calm down maybe? 

[BTR1701 59]

On 27/06/2023 at 9:54 PM, BrotherSound said:

It seems a likely candidate, but nothing from the sheet music we’ve seen for ‘Whip at a Gun Fight’ is in this track.
 

 

Where have we seen that sheet music? I'd love to have a look.

[BrotherSound 2,242]

2 minutes ago, BTR1701 said:

Where have we seen that sheet music? I'd love to have a look.

It’s one page of a French horn part:

 

[BTR1701 59]

15 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

It’s one page of a French horn part:

 

 

Ah, thanks. As someone who's done some professional engraving work for film music, that part raises some questions.

 

When it changes to 6/8, why have one measure of rest and then a 6-bar block rest? Why not just make it a 7-bar block rest?

 

And in measure 22, why is there a clef change to treble indicated when it was already in treble clef the entire time?

 

Very weird.

 

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

15 minutes ago, BTR1701 said:

 

Ah, thanks. As someone who's done some professional engraving work for film music, that part raises some questions.

 

When it changes to 6/8, why have one measure of rest and then a 6-bar block rest? Why not just make it a 7-bar block rest?

 

And in measure 22, why is there a clef change to treble indicated when it was already in treble clef the entire time?

 

Very weird.

 

 

Might there be a synch point after the single 6/8 bar? If so, there's could be some kind of marker in the conductor score which would then be propagated into the orchestral parts and thus it would split up a group of bars rest, presumably in case they need to start from a synch point rather than perform the entire cue. Just a guess.

[BTR1701 59]

4 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Might there be a synch point after the single 6/8 bar? If so, there's could be some kind of marker in the conductor score which would then be propagated into the orchestral parts and thus it would split up a group of bars rest, presumably in case they need to start from a synch point rather than perform the entire cue. Just a guess.

 

It's possible. Never seen it done that way before, though. The first rule of engraving, especially the performers' parts, is to make things as clear and easy to understand as possible, especially for studio gigs like this where performers are expected to sight-read a piece perfectly the first time through. Throwing in confusing clef changes and leaving orphan bars on block rests would just make me as a performer say "Huh?" when I sat down and looked at the part. At a minimum, it would make me raise my hand and ask for clarification, which eats up valuable session time.

[Schilkeman 964]

8 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

That moron is really putting Dial Of Destiny and Crystal Skull on the level of The Last Crusade.

For starters, no he's not. Read the last paragraph. Secondly, we have had years and decades, respectively, to live with these other scores. Nuance and subtlety are more revealed through time and repeated listening than anything else. And if you don't care to listen to John Williams score repeatedly, then what in God's holy name are you doing here of all places?

[Tydirium 1,167]

1 hour ago, Schilkeman said:

For starters, no he's not. Read the last paragraph. Secondly, we have had years and decades, respectively, to live with these other scores. Nuance and subtlety are more revealed through time and repeated listening than anything else. And if you don't care to listen to John Williams score repeatedly, then what in God's holy name are you doing here of all places?

Agree with you about TolkienSS, but Clemmensen does in fact appear to be putting DOD on the level of TLC and KOTCS. In the last paragraph: “It extends the quality of the prior two works…” And I for one agree with him about its quality.

[Schilkeman 964]

16 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

Agree with you about TolkienSS, but Clemmensen does in fact appear to be putting DOD on the level of TLC and KOTCS. In the last paragraph: “It extends the quality of the prior two works…” And I for one agree with him about its quality.

Sorry, I was conflating it with the Broxton review. Again, I haven’t heard this one enough to rank it, but I would easily put the criminally underrated Crystal Skull up against Last Crusade, for sure. To me, none of them are better than ToD.

[Jilal 569]

19 hours ago, BB-8 said:

I may be going mad but I seem to hear notions of Ravel's Bolero in Archimedes' Theme.

 

Yeah, it's been discussed before

[D_nev 89]

11 hours ago, BTR1701 said:

 

Ah, thanks. As someone who's done some professional engraving work for film music, that part raises some questions.

 

When it changes to 6/8, why have one measure of rest and then a 6-bar block rest? Why not just make it a 7-bar block rest?

 

And in measure 22, why is there a clef change to treble indicated when it was already in treble clef the entire time?

 

Very weird.

 

 

The single 6/8 bar is to show the musicians what the click will be doing. You can see it on top of the bars in some places places. In this case they are prepping the players for the switch from 6/4 to 6/8.

 

The treble clef is likely just a mistake, which are bound to happen in any situation:)

[TolkienSS 407]

22 hours ago, Joni Wiljami said:

Why would anyone compare the animated film score to  Indiana Jones score. 

 

Because they are both literally the same genre, Tintin was one of many inspirations for Indiana Jones, Spielberg himself called Tintin "Indiana Jones for kids", and Williams used his Tintin score as blueprint for one of the setpieces in Indy 5?

Just an idea.

 

What an outrageous idea, that one Williams adventure score may be superior to another.

How weird.

[crocodile 8,017]

I would say that the entire score sounds very much like Tintin. I don't mean it as an bad thing, I was hoping it would be.

 

Karol

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

I wonder if all the temp-track love was initially a thing of Williams' only doing some themes and handling the rest of the score to someone else... Until he decided to do it himself, and maybe they kept the temp-track? Hell, perhaps even Williams thought that will all the previously written music (or previous music that needed slight modifications) scoring the bloody thing would be a lot less work.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I'm falling quite in love with the Archimedes theme. At first I brushed it off as just Williams doing his usual modal mystery style and lamented the lack of bells and whistles in its orchestration, just the usual kind of thing that you'd hear in the dénouement of a Williams score. But the more I listen to it the more it reveals itself, and it's quite sublime. The noble but ghostly orchestration; the ethereal nature of it, the unexpected melodic shifts and how it opens up into something more romantic and beautiful... The modal shift in the horn phrase that begins at 4:28 of Prologue just gives me chills. 

 

It reminds me a little of Luke's exile material in TLJ, which did a similar thing for me - what I thought initially was meandering underscore was in fact a very subtle and intentionally structured theme.

 

I also love how he ends the Prologue track with the theme, melancholic and sinister... I can't help but think of the carnivore motif rounding out the end credits of Jurassic Park.

[Indianagirl 298]

I think this is John's best score in several years. Not sure how many. But several.

[Bellosh 3,419]

1 hour ago, Indianagirl said:

I think this is John's best score in several years. Not sure how many. But several.

 

it's probably my favorite since War Horse

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Was the Nazi brass chorale temped with The Batman?  

(Or maybe just The Miami Convention)

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

To me it sounds more like the Russian brass motif from KOTCS was the inspiration, or some of the brass chorales in the Prequels (especially ROTS). I don't know this for certain but I was under the impression that this film and the sequel trilogy were only temped with Williams' own music, nothing from any other composer. Personally I think that's a mixed bag... I wish they'd gone to Williams' own inspirations for these films and tapped into Stravinski, Korngold etc, or branched out with some other "great" composers (i.e. not contemporary).