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unfortunately, many elements of Indy 5 are missing and will need to be rerecorded

I heard that the tapes for Star Wars X are in terrible condition and may need some expert care, if they can be retrieved at all!

Holy shit we're getting a new Indy score next month

I was thinking about how a map cue variation of Helena's theme might sound in the upcoming movie, and I had a cool idea. In this clip, I play my idea on the piano. I tried to compose in the style of John Williams. Perhaps you guys will enjoy this. Also, if you like this, you may also like Voller's theme, which I am still working on! It will be fully orchestrated on Musescore, and reflect what we've heard from the leaked clip. From Morocco to Sicily (1).mp4

I've been waiting to post this for a while, I worked on this as my final project for a film music class I took this semester, I figured I might as well share it here now that it's graded. I'm sure none of this information is new for anyone here - and I don't think my music analysis skills are the absolute greatest - but I tried to document everything known about the score as best as I could. Hopefully it's a valuable resource for somebody. Please let me know if I made any mistakes or anything so I can fix them. film music class final paper - redacted jwfan version.pdf

They’re finally going to start releasing Jerry Goldsmith scores.

They read some posts in this forum and had to go and ask JW to do some rewrites.

Some absurdly inspired scoring there, too.

Jay, you're just trying to cover for the fact that you KNOW that the Star Wars / Indiana Jones / Harry Potter COMPLETE SET is imminent. (With Jurassic Park III as a decorative display stand.)

This one's a no-brainer: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nightgalleryart/the-jerry-goldsmith-companion

It's a poem. A tone poem. You see the echo of where it's all going to go. It's like poetry, so that they rhyme. Every stanza just kinds of rhymes with the last one.

look, there's an Indy film your brain loves and an Indy film your heart loves and there's Kingdom, which appeals to neither

Is it any different to the pulpy, cartoonish tone throughout Temple of Doom? That's filled with obvious green screen shots, obvious soundstage work, obvious insert shots that didn't involve the main cast, not to mention characters bickering throughout the action. That is Indiana Jones! As far as I'm concerned, Mangold's nailed the tone. And we know Raiders and Temple were his primary inspiration for Destiny. Were people expecting some ultra-serious, dark and gritty modern Indy film? The series was never about that, nor is that the film Mangold is making. And anyone arguing the previous films weren't littered with dodgy effects (green screen or otherwise) is in denial.

It is crazy to imagine if James Horner were still alive, he would only be 69. He would probably still be a major figure in the scoring world. In contrast, Silvestri is 73. Zimmer is 65. Elfman is also 69. James Newton Howard is 71.

the score sucks. better close the forum.

I’m not sure I like the attitude emanating from this thread. After everything JW has given us in his eight-decade-spanning career, hasn’t he earned the benefit of the doubt? Can’t we wait until we see the film or listen to the OST before worrying that JW has somehow let us down? And even if it turns out a couple minutes in his two-hour pencil-on-paper score are lifted, does that diminish the fact that that lifted music stands head and shoulders above what nearly anyone else on the planet could write? We continue to get so much from the man and somehow it’s never quite enough. Fucking ingrates.

The new phase of JWFAN: the letdown comes now before the score is released.

The ToD scene also works without having seen Raiders, so I really can't see the problem with it.

Not to audiences in 1984, I can tell you that. This moment SOLD the trailer and got enormous laughs. Audiences watching the trailer had no knowledge of a "prequel" at that point. And I'm sure your average ticket buyer had no memory of Raiders being set in '36, when Shanghai 1935 is displayed. I may be wrong, but I'm not even certain the filmmakers originally set out to make it a prequel, or if that was decided late in the game. Either way, it was not lame.

I think we're missing the forest for the trees a bit...I don't claim to have the full scores for KOTCS and Dial of Destiny so I can't say for certain whether each instrument is playing exactly the same notes. But the basic musical idea is clearly the same.

'I'm RIGHT HERE!'

Okay I checked out these spots and you’re absolutely right: it’s not note for note. Of course there is similarities in style, and in orchestration, but if this is the way we’re going to look at this score… come on guys.

My personal theory is that, similar to the situation on Rise of Skywalker, this temp-track love is something that helps Williams' speed up his writing process -and potentially dedicate his energy into juicier scenes. I mean, you can hear the music in the clip, but it's not a game changer so I like to think that Johnny knows it might get buried in the mix, so he doesn't waste as much time and energy as he might have done in the past and makes some shortcuts. I mean, at this point in his carreer, what else can he do with action music that he hasn't done?

It absolutely is not note for note. There’s stuff going on in the low woodwinds that I don’t hear in any of the other examples given. The trumpet rhythmic patterns and fanfare is similar, but not the same.

Not just this film. Henry’s trick with the birds, the Charlemagne line, and especially the look Indy gives him after is his one of the best sequences in the trilogy.

Indiana Jones films are historical dramas!

Someone at FSM pointed out that this could be Moonraker. That would be pretty cool!

Don't mess with my heart

Williams is 91 years old, and action music is unbelievably strenuous to compose. What we're hearing here serves the scene expertly, it creates continuity with the other scores, and offers a bit of a reprieve for Williams (and/or Ross, who we can assume is involved in a similar way here as he was with the ST). And there's precedent in KOTCS anyway of this kind of thing, with the Gunpowder (ROTLA: Discovering the Seriph), Corpse/Betrayal (TLC: Kazim and the Rats!), and Warehouse Escape (ROTLA: Flight to Freedom) cues. The score to DoD is going to be absolutely marvelous, calm down folks.

I definitely remember saying Raiders was a big inspiration, but I never saw him talk about Doom. I do love the line in the trailer where he talks about being tortured with voodoo.

He doesn’t want to include the late Sean Connery in his movie.

Your love of the Halfling's leaf has clearly dulled your mind.

This all might be true. Still John Williams not only gave Star Wars a very special but also very popular musical identity. Why not keep that? And why not maintain that? And even If his style is hard to emmulate even for experienced studied composers (why???), why are the new scores so clumsy and weaker than almost any random modern adventure score?

I was on cruise in the Mediterranean and we were in Rhodes and I'd logged onto the wifi of a cafe while having a drink and I saw an email from, I think, BSX which said "remembering James Horner" which initially I just thought was just a bit of a strange email heading and then I read more... not gonna lie, I cried. I know we'll never quite know how we'll react to things, but it seemed far more of a shock than, say, when Jerry died. Guess the age and manner made it feel all the worse. Anyway, I gave this cheeky little number a spin today... pretty much of a patchwork of 80s Hornerisms without a defining "thing" to make it stand out, but if the worst thing you can say is that it's a patchwork of 80s Hornerisms, it's not so bad.

Yeah, it could be Moonraker, but wouldn't it be more interesting if it turned out to be GoldenEye? With the Williams quote being how he always wanted to score a Bond film and it turns out that he was approached to do GoldenEye, but his agent said he wasn't available. If you're gonna speculate, speculate!

Foreshadowing.

I respect anyone who says Last Crusade is their favourite Indy film. It’s a legit and defensible opinion. On the other hand, if you say it’s the best Indy film…no. The best Indy film is Raiders. On this point there can be no debate.

Nope. It is VERY different from the tone in Raiders. That's why, so far, there is ONE fantastic Indiana Jones movie. He means "Let my armies be the rocks and the trees and the birds in the sky."

Your analysis of releases at the start is actually quite an educational read for someone like myself, with very little knowledge of the details of the individual releases. I think it also highlights the challenge of getting proper expansions of these 3 scores - it takes some rather technical explaining to understand what the problems are. Somewhere I've got the 2-CD set of ESB, purchased cheaply while at uni as a rather optimisic attempt to get into the score (it didn't work).

I'm getting the very strong vibes that Williams originally only wanted to do the musical groundwork, but then decided to do it all himself, but then felt tired of it.

Mystery box ☑️ Style over substance ☑️ Bad writing ☑️ Talking a good game to try and fool your audience ☑️ I’d say they were grown from the leftovers of one of JJ’s tissues or something.

HERRMANN CASABLANCA TIOMKIN CAPTAIN BLOOD

Definitely the Herrmann one. I like the Rozsa album too. And a bit of Errol Flynn swashbuckling won't hurt either. Karol

How about this one

This is fucking fantastic, man. Thanks for sharing this with the community. It's the things like this that give this site such a beautiful feel. Such a wonderful piece of work. It will kill me if Williams doesn't lean into the vicinity of the feel of this track because those orchestrations and interpretations of Helena's Theme no joke finally made it click for me as a Williams piece. All I needed was to hear it with piano. Thanks again, you have a lovely creative mind for taking something like this on and being able to execute it so perfectly.

Sounds to me like it's a collaboration with a different studio/legal entity than the usual ones, and one that holds other interesting stuff that might too be released if this does well.

They didn't finish deaging Donovan in this scene:

yes, the unreleased parts in Deep Impact (first part of the movie) are soooo good. Piano, Synths, bass … gosh I love this stuff.